sumserbrown

On 04/06/2023 at 01:57, RobW said:

 

Hello Rob,

 

Not being an expert in these Philippine issues I would say it is a good example of the 'Official Type 2' (Laslo grading). In this case the planchet should be around 2mm+).

 

Regards,

Rob

 

Rob,

 

I would suggest you contact the OMSA ribbon bank. They may have some stocks of the ribbon you are searching for.

 

https://www.omsa.org/omsa-ribbon-bank/

 

Regards,

Rob

Thanks for the suggestion Rob,

in the meantime I found a piece of replacement ribbon from a seller on Ebay, but I will bear in mind the OMSA ribbon bank for any other medals.

best wishes

Rob

On 09/05/2023 at 18:40, Ura87 said:

I think it's not true combination for the medal but interesting.

These are non-official bars, probably made for veterans waiting for their official medals to arrive, or for veterans who wanted to supplement their official medals with extra bars. The medal was never issued like this. You can see by the stamp on the back of the bars that they were made in France. Your medal has lost its suspension bar and when issued this was well sewed to the ribbon so difficult to remove and put back. The easiest way therefore to add these unofficial bars to an official medal was to open the brass ring joining the bottom of the ribbon to the medal, separate the medal, add the bars, put the medal back on the ring and then close the ring again. Often then you are left with a small gap in the ring as you can see in your photo. You do not see that gap on official medals that have not been tampered with.

best wishes

Rob

Just signed up as a patron; very happy to contribute if it helps the future of GMIC.

Rob

On 13/03/2023 at 10:00, Herman said:

A picture of the medal group of US Major General Andre W. Brewster including the Panamese Solidarity Medal.

 

Regards

Herman 

 

That's an excellent group. Good to see the Panama Medal of Solidarity in a group rather than being loose.

Rob

8 hours ago, RobW said:

Rob,

Send me a DM with an email address and I'll forward you the article when I find it. I am not near my collection or research notes at the moment but will be in March.

Regards,

Rob

OK done, many thanks

Rob

On 19/12/2022 at 10:40, RobW said:

Hello Rob,

 

There is not a whole lot of information about the specific numbers of these medals actually awarded in each class. As far as my records show the medal was awarded in three classes:

 

1. First class in silver.
2. Second class in bronze with a rosette.
3. Third class in bronze without a rosette.

 

The medal was awarded with a certificate although the examples of the certificates I have seen are not numbered. Thus we are no closer to identifying probable recipient award number ranges.

 

I have an article by Paulo Jorge Estrela from the Instituto Geográfico Português from 4/2007 that does have a large amount of detail on this particular award. When I can track that document down I will look to get it translated from Portuguese to English. Hopefully that will provide some more context.

To your second point about I have not seen any fakes yet entering the market although that doesn't mean there won't be in the future.

 

Regards,
Rob

 

Hi Rob,

if you can track down that particle from Paulo Estrela then please post it or send it to me (even untranslated) as it would be very interesting to see.

I have found the list (or a list) of British recipients from the Gazette and the three levels are Gold, Silver with rosette and Bronze. At least on this list there is 1x Gold, 6x Silver and 59x Bronze only. Haig is an obvious choice for gold, but the others seem a little random, or at least I don't see any sort of pattern among them. 

Rob

this is p1

this is p2 from the Gazette

Rob

Hi Rob

thanks, that's great news

best wishes

Rob

On 22/08/2016 at 16:42, lambert said:

I don't know if this is known.

Souvenir  - 25mm in Silver, Lima - Peru (1917?)

 

Lambert

 

 

Hi Lambert,

It is mentioned in the (excellent) book on Verdun Medals by Thierry Silvert (2006) on p19. I have scanned in that page as well as the front cover of the book. It doesn't say anything about the rarity of this medal although I suspect it must be quite uncommon to find one.

best wishes

Rob

Scan2023-01-09_182155.pdf Scan2023-01-09_182314.pdf

On 20/06/2010 at 08:41, RobW said:

And here is a bronze example.

 

Regards,

Rob

Having just acquired one of these medals in bronze myself, it occurred to me that given their 'rarity', you do see them reasonably often either on Ebay or dealer sites. Does anyone know if there was ever a re-issue or authorised later copy made? Given the prices they fetch, and the relative ease of forgery, does anyone know if they have ever been outright faked in the market-place? I have done a little searching and so far I have not yet found a good source that compares a genuine medal (and ribbon I guess) to a later copy. Has anyone seen anything like that, or does anyone have enough knowledge to tell a genuine version?

thanks

Rob

On 18/09/2022 at 02:40, Bill Brouillard Jr. said:

I believe that the Gold version was awarded to General Officers, Holders of the Medal of Honor, and The Unknown Soldier.

 

The one in the photo may be a French period copy due to the large ball suspension.

 

Bill

Hi Bill,

I have tried to find as many photos on the web as I can find of the bronze versions and they all seem to have the same size ball suspension. It would be interesting to know if anyone out there has some tell-tale signs / measurements they use to distinguish a real medal from a later copy.

The other link I found was this one, from a UK regimental museum site Panama Decorations and Awards - Worcestershire Regiment as it details the award of the Panama medal to an actual, named British soldier. In this case, despite being a Victoria Cross holder (the highest gallantry medal in the British Empire) he was awarded a bronze medal because of his rank.

best wishes

Rob

Happy to follow down whatever route you decide is best, as I also have so far taken out much more than I have put into this site and I find it very valuable (and enjoyable) to pick the brains of the experts virtually residing here when I need to. Happy to watch adverts, happy to pay not to have adverts, will buy some merchandise (I would like a lapel pin, cufflinks or a coaster for my desk for example), happy to pay to advertise medals for sale or for those I am wanting to buy, happy for an annual subscription. Let's just keep the site going and keep it alive for existing and new members.

best wishes,

Rob

On 20/06/2010 at 08:40, RobW said:

 

 

 

Hello all,

 

Here are a couple of Panama Medals of Solidarity. While Panama played no active part in the Great War they did award this medal in solidarity to the allies and it is associated with the Great War and the Interallied vic series in general.

 

According to Alex Purves' book 'The Medals, Decorations & Orders of the Great War 1914-1918' this medal was produced in limited quantities, in three classes. Numbers awarded were reportedly 100 to each of the allied countries. Medals were awarded in gold (silver-gilt) to commanders in chief, silver with a rosette to generals and senior officers and bronze to officers and other ranks.

 

This silver version, while not mine, shows the rosette clearly.

 

Bronze example to follow.

 

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

not sure if you know the answer to this or not, bit I have just bought one in bronze and was intrigued.

I have also read in several places that Panama issued 100 to each of the WWI allied countries, and in gold, silver and bronze varieties. What is not clear to me is whether 1/ 100 medals were issued in total to each country (as a mix of gold, silver, bronze of maybe variable proportions) or 2/ whether there were 100 of each metal (100 gold, 100 silver, 100 bronze) or 3/ were there 100 bronze and maybe fewer silver and then 1 or 2 gold per country. Clearly option 2 seems very unlikely - why have 100 gold per country, but any thoughts on this?

thanks

Rob

On 20/07/2013 at 20:17, JBFloyd said:

This is the Medal of Solidarity, third class, of Panama. Apparently only 100 were awarded to each of the WWI allies.

 

These are quite rare. The last one I sold (several years ago) went for US$550.

Hi Jeff,

not sure if you know the answer to this or not, bit I have just bought one in bronze and was intrigued.

I have also read in several places that Panama issued 100 to each of the WWI allied countries, and in gold, silver and bronze varieties. What is not clear to me is whether 1/ 100 medals were issued in total to each country (as a mix of gold, silver, bronze of maybe variable proportions) or 2/ whether there were 100 of each metal (100 gold, 100 silver, 100 bronze) or 3/ were there 100 bronze and maybe fewer silver and then 1 or 2 gold per country. Clearly option 2 seems very unlikely - why have 100 gold per country, but any thoughts on this?

thanks

Rob

On 12/08/2022 at 22:58, Bill Brouillard Jr. said:

Engraved WWI Victory trio to a Marine who served in Cuba in 1917-18

 

Bill

Very nice grouping

Rob

On 21/04/2022 at 19:12, Jean-Michel said:

Hello Rob,

The 27mm model is rare with the inscription on the reverse "THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILIZATION 1914-1918", I saw it a few times at auction in Paris. It's one of my regrets not to have bought one of these models, but at the time, my collection was not only focused on the victory medal. I do not despair of finding a copy.

For your medal, it is an unusual medal by its size and its gilded metal, but it lacks the inscription on the reverse to make it a true unofficial model.

https://www.medaillesinteralliees.fr/france-2
Regards,

 

Jean-Michel

Thanks Jean-Michel,

your information, as always, is extremely useful.

Rob

On 13/11/2016 at 11:09, j-sk said:

Hello Gentlemen,

I have recently found some US WW1 state medals in a saturday-morning jumble sale.

They were sold as is, without their ribbon. 

Does anyone know someone or a retailer who is likely to sell original or replacement ribbons?

Regards,

Jean-Sam.   

Might be a little late to reply to this, but just in case.....

The first thing to do is determine which ribbon should go on which medal. There are good books by Small, Planck and Lipps which can help you with this, but, for example, Small lists 27 different ribbon types on these US WWI State, Town and County medals so it is better to get the right one for your medals missing the ribbon. The most common ribbon I have seen on these medals is red, white and blue vertical stripes.

Having worked out which ribbon to use, the next thing to do is find either old replacement ribbon, or more modern ribbon of the same colours and widths. Ebay is my go to location, although I have found lengths of old ribbon on other specialist sites such as Bay State Militaria.

Hope that helps,

best wishes

Rob

On 11/01/2022 at 12:07, Jean-Michel said:

Hello Rob,

Your 27mm model in gilded bronze on the flankless reverse, is not an Allied medal. However, Alexlander J. LASLO considered it unofficial type 1a. Alexander Laslo mentions that the stock of this medal has been used for other medals, except that it is the reverse. The house "Delande" made this medal with the blank reverse for various associations.

In 1921, France still not having an official model, the military wore either a Belgian uniface model or a Charles model, the "Delande" house therefore took the opportunity to publish a model from its generic model.
This model was marketed in the catalog of the house "Delande" in June 1921.
If one follows logic, there are only two medals which were produced exclusively as an Allied medal, the official model "Morlon" and the unofficial "Charles" model. This is why on my site, I do not classify the "Pautot-Mattéi" and "Charles" medals as official models but as curiosities.
However, your medal remains interesting, because according to the ribbon,
I think if Alexander J. Laslo was still in the world he would have published a new book, because at the time he wrote his last book he did not have the internet resources that we have today.
I take this opportunity to congratulate you on the quality of the models you own.
Best regards,

Jean-Michel

Thanks Jean-Michel, that is very interesting. Do you happen to know how rare the 27mm Pautot-Mattei model is compared to the normal version?

Rob

On 28/08/2021 at 09:35, RobW said:

Hello Rob,

Your item is an unofficial type 2 (Laslo classification). Of interest is the main planchet appears to be of a different composition than that of the unique suspender. This is most noticeable in the reverse pictures. It also looks like someone has cleaned just the main planchet but not the suspender. Irrespective of that it is an unofficial type 2. They have been seen in a variety of different finishes and with planchet variations that are extremely minor so I wouldn't read into that too much.

 

Things to look at would be gently cleaning both the obverse of the suspender to remove the verdigris in between the roundels, as well as making some attempt to remove/reduce/clean the verdigris spot on the reverse.

 

As this type of unofficial medal has been attributed to French manufacture I would recommend that you replace the ribbon with some french produced silk ribbon as then it would be true to type.

 

A nice example in relatively good condition.

 

Regards from Australia,
Rob

Many thanks Rob, much appreciated

Sure agreed, it is close but not quite the unofficial type 2 , but does anybody know what it actually is?? A modern replacement / copy / fake? Anyone seen one before?

Hello everybody,

comments (good or bad) welcome please on this one.

best wishes

Rob

On 25/01/2016 at 13:51, sumserbrown said:

Hi all,

I am new to the forum but have been collecting these WWI US state, county and town victory medals for a number of years.

In his book, Louis Small lists the following known State victory medals, with an estimate of the numbers issued:

New York 427,871

Missouri 140,247

New Jersey 130,024

North Carolina 105,436

Maryland 64,424 (actual number)

Connecticut 56,881

Oregon 32,276

New Hampshire 18,255

District of Columbia 18,016

Delaware 9,187

Wyoming 8,009

I have them all if anyone needs photos - it took me some time and a bit of money to get Delaware and Wyoming.

best wishes

Rob

This is the Delaware WWI state victory/service medal #8197 issued to HT Cummings. I have had this in my collection around 10 years and never knew anything about it, but I was recently pointed to a thread about the WW1 Delaware medal on USmilitariaforum.com and within an hour of me posting this morning I had a couple of helpful people post newspaper cuttings and his WW2 draft registration card and suddenly I know a great deal about him. Turns out he was a Captain in the Ordnance Dept. B. 27-Nov-1884 Meadville PA, lived a long time in New Castle, DE and ended up in Baltimore MD before dying 10-Feb-1945

There is a Cuban victory medal on Ebay for $975. That seems expensive to me, but maybe demand is fuelling inflation of prices.

On 12/10/2020 at 21:32, cuba1959 said:

Hello Rob, 

the first group with the enamel ribbon is from an officer. Each star on the long services medal represent  5 years for an officer. 
The medal in the enamel bar are ; 

1. military merit blue 

2. long service medal with 4 stars 

3 /4/5 batista coup d Etat 1933

6. Army rifle competition 

the second group is for a non officer (grade from soldier to sergeant).  Each ´ V’´ is 4 years of services. 

Thank you, that is really interesting. I actually bought both of these together from Sidney Vernon and I had assumed that they were the same group, one being the medals themselves and the others the ribbon bar of exactly the same group. Now you are telling me that actually these belong to two completely different people, which I had never appreciated before.

two additional questions for clarification:

1/ Do you get the long service medal for the first 4 years and then each chevron represents an additional 4 years, or does 4 chevrons equal a total of 16 years service?

2/ what does the star on the national reconciliation medal denote?

many thanks

Rob

I posted this previously on another GMIC thread but will post here too. I also have one of the enamel ribbon bars with stars instead of chevrons on the long service medal. I have three questions for the panel:

1/ Does this group belong to an officer? 

2/ How many years service is denoted by having 4 chevrons on the long service medal?

3/ What does the star on the national reconciliation medal mean, as I have seen some versions without this star?

thanks in advance

Rob

Hi Graham,

if you want I can let you have the abomination I used as a placeholder until I managed to buy the real one. It's a hideous modern piece I think from the UK, but it lets you pretend you have that elusive and expensive Siam medal (if you squint hard enough) ?

best wishes

Rob