sumserbrown

Thanks Jean-Michel, that price seems very cheap. If the medal was genuine then I think the buyer got a bargain..... Rob

OK, many thanks! Rob

Medal 1 has a diameter of 38.8mm and thickness 3.1mm at the 3 o'clock position Dense metal Medal 2 diameter 37,7mm, thickness 1.4mm. Same density metal as #1 Medal 3 diameter 38.0mm, thickness 1.7mm but noticeably less dense metal Is this all normal? thanks in advance Rob

This might not be the right place to post but I will follow on from this thread as it seems a relevant place, Maybe I can pick the brain of Marcon1 Rob I bought these medals recently from a bric-a-brac market in Lisbon. I have no reason to question if they are genuine but I have questions as they seem to be made of different metals, are different sizes and thicknesses and have different ribbons.

How much do we think a genuine Siam original striking victory medal is worth these days?

There are a surprising number of different bars on the Verdun medals. In his book 'La Medaille de Verdun', 2006, Thierry Silvert lists 8 bars, which I have put in his order in the image below. I have also added two more modern (but different) bars, all from my collection. I can't speak for the rarity of each type here but type 3 was the one that took me longest to find. Please let me know if you have any other bars not listed here.

This is a genuine Siam medal for comparison best wishes, Rob and close up

Finally after many years of searching I managed to track down and buy a Steiner version of the medal 😏 If any of you can get to the World Militaria Forum I put a thread on there with all the Verdun variants I have. If anyone is interested I will post some on GMIC too. Rob

Thanks for the suggestion Rob, in the meantime I found a piece of replacement ribbon from a seller on Ebay, but I will bear in mind the OMSA ribbon bank for any other medals. best wishes Rob

These are non-official bars, probably made for veterans waiting for their official medals to arrive, or for veterans who wanted to supplement their official medals with extra bars. The medal was never issued like this. You can see by the stamp on the back of the bars that they were made in France. Your medal has lost its suspension bar and when issued this was well sewed to the ribbon so difficult to remove and put back. The easiest way therefore to add these unofficial bars to an official medal was to open the brass ring joining the bottom of the ribbon to the medal, separate the medal, add the bars, put the medal back on the ring and then close the ring again. Often then you are left with a small gap in the ring as you can see in your photo. You do not see that gap on official medals that have not been tampered with. best wishes Rob

That's an excellent group. Good to see the Panama Medal of Solidarity in a group rather than being loose. Rob

OK done, many thanks Rob

Hi Rob, if you can track down that particle from Paulo Estrela then please post it or send it to me (even untranslated) as it would be very interesting to see. I have found the list (or a list) of British recipients from the Gazette and the three levels are Gold, Silver with rosette and Bronze. At least on this list there is 1x Gold, 6x Silver and 59x Bronze only. Haig is an obvious choice for gold, but the others seem a little random, or at least I don't see any sort of pattern among them. Rob this is p1 this is p2 from the Gazette Rob

Hi Rob thanks, that's great news best wishes Rob

Hi Lambert, It is mentioned in the (excellent) book on Verdun Medals by Thierry Silvert (2006) on p19. I have scanned in that page as well as the front cover of the book. It doesn't say anything about the rarity of this medal although I suspect it must be quite uncommon to find one. best wishes Rob Scan2023-01-09_182155.pdf Scan2023-01-09_182314.pdf

Having just acquired one of these medals in bronze myself, it occurred to me that given their 'rarity', you do see them reasonably often either on Ebay or dealer sites. Does anyone know if there was ever a re-issue or authorised later copy made? Given the prices they fetch, and the relative ease of forgery, does anyone know if they have ever been outright faked in the market-place? I have done a little searching and so far I have not yet found a good source that compares a genuine medal (and ribbon I guess) to a later copy. Has anyone seen anything like that, or does anyone have enough knowledge to tell a genuine version? thanks Rob

Hi Bill, I have tried to find as many photos on the web as I can find of the bronze versions and they all seem to have the same size ball suspension. It would be interesting to know if anyone out there has some tell-tale signs / measurements they use to distinguish a real medal from a later copy. The other link I found was this one, from a UK regimental museum site Panama Decorations and Awards - Worcestershire Regiment as it details the award of the Panama medal to an actual, named British soldier. In this case, despite being a Victoria Cross holder (the highest gallantry medal in the British Empire) he was awarded a bronze medal because of his rank. best wishes Rob

Hi Rob, not sure if you know the answer to this or not, bit I have just bought one in bronze and was intrigued. I have also read in several places that Panama issued 100 to each of the WWI allied countries, and in gold, silver and bronze varieties. What is not clear to me is whether 1/ 100 medals were issued in total to each country (as a mix of gold, silver, bronze of maybe variable proportions) or 2/ whether there were 100 of each metal (100 gold, 100 silver, 100 bronze) or 3/ were there 100 bronze and maybe fewer silver and then 1 or 2 gold per country. Clearly option 2 seems very unlikely - why have 100 gold per country, but any thoughts on this? thanks Rob

Hi Jeff, not sure if you know the answer to this or not, bit I have just bought one in bronze and was intrigued. I have also read in several places that Panama issued 100 to each of the WWI allied countries, and in gold, silver and bronze varieties. What is not clear to me is whether 1/ 100 medals were issued in total to each country (as a mix of gold, silver, bronze of maybe variable proportions) or 2/ whether there were 100 of each metal (100 gold, 100 silver, 100 bronze) or 3/ were there 100 bronze and maybe fewer silver and then 1 or 2 gold per country. Clearly option 2 seems very unlikely - why have 100 gold per country, but any thoughts on this? thanks Rob

Very nice grouping Rob

Thanks Jean-Michel, your information, as always, is extremely useful. Rob

Might be a little late to reply to this, but just in case..... The first thing to do is determine which ribbon should go on which medal. There are good books by Small, Planck and Lipps which can help you with this, but, for example, Small lists 27 different ribbon types on these US WWI State, Town and County medals so it is better to get the right one for your medals missing the ribbon. The most common ribbon I have seen on these medals is red, white and blue vertical stripes. Having worked out which ribbon to use, the next thing to do is find either old replacement ribbon, or more modern ribbon of the same colours and widths. Ebay is my go to location, although I have found lengths of old ribbon on other specialist sites such as Bay State Militaria. Hope that helps, best wishes Rob

Thanks Jean-Michel, that is very interesting. Do you happen to know how rare the 27mm Pautot-Mattei model is compared to the normal version? Rob

Many thanks Rob, much appreciated

Sure agreed, it is close but not quite the unofficial type 2 , but does anybody know what it actually is?? A modern replacement / copy / fake? Anyone seen one before?