sumserbrown

13 minutes ago, Bilco said:

Hi Rob,

There are good photos to compare your medals with here https://www.medaillesinteralliees.fr/portugal

Bill

Thanks Bill, some very good photos of medals from your excellent collection in there too I see ?

Hi Bill,

thanks again for the reply (don't seem to be many of us on these interallied victory medal fora at the moment!). It looks good to me, but always great to have a second opinion. What surprised me when I took this out of its wallet was how light it was compared to most of the other victory medals, but when I looked it up in Laslo after, he says exactly the same thing and this was extra reassuring. I bought this medal almost 12 years ago from a dealer in Bangkok who assured me it was genuine and thankfully he was right as this was the last of the series for me to obtain and it was very expensive!

cheers

Rob

40 minutes ago, Bilco said:

Hi Rob,

Check your second medal against the photos here  https://www.medaillesinteralliees.fr/tchecoslovaquie

For the first one, there are treatments for verdigris. I use a product called Verdi-care, but I've heard that WD-40 does the job. In both case, wash in distilled water after treatment.

Bill

Hi Bill

Thanks for the cleaning tips; I might try it when I feel brave enough ?

I had a look at the website you suggested but I don't think my medal is any of those listed up there.

best wishes

Rob

49 minutes ago, Bilco said:

Hi Rob,

There is a post about half-way down on page 23 of this thread showing a So-Called Dollar version of the US Victory medal. It's made of copper, so is a different colour to the issue planchet.

Bill

Thanks Bill. It's the sort of information I should have read up before I bought it 14 years ago! Hopefully everyone is a bit more careful these days as there is so  much more information out there on the internet and much better photos to compare to.

best wishes

Rob

I have made some excellent medal purchases in the past, but I certainly made loads of mistakes too. I have learnt a lot from this forum so I don't mind owning up and helping others by pointing out the errors I made and how I got duped into buying something next to worthless ?

Today's lesson reminds us to be less trusting of some dealers and not simply take everything they say as honest fact Make sure you get good pictures before you buy and then carefully inspect your purchase when it arrives, not 14 years later when you are taking high-res photos of your collection! Caveat emptor.

This is the so-called 'Dollar' variety of the US victory medal:

....except it isn't. It's a normal US victory with the suspension cut off and polished down ? Luckily I didn't pay too much for it so now it's just a worthless curio to refer back to and warn me. Happy purchasing all!

Rob

14 minutes ago, oliver860 said:

Добрый день!

Ничего удивительного!

Планки производства Франции 1920-1930гг

There is no 'MADE IN FRANCE' stamp on the back of the claps, but you could be correct in what you think. That for me would be OK if true as at least that way you could argue that they are old clasps designed for veterans and filling a gap in the market while the real medals were issued. My biggest concern would be if these were outright forgeries produced more recently for the specific purpose of fooling collectors. Is there any evidence to prove that these are 1920s or 1930s produced clasps?

thanks

Rob

Not sure. I would like better photos of it to have a really good look. Maybe Lambert could ask them in Portuguese for some more information.

best wishes

Rob

If any of you are looking for one there seems to be a Brazilian vic for sale at Mercado Livre right now....

Hello everyone, what do you make of these two Belgian unofficial type 3's?

The one on the left is 37mm diameter and 1.1mm thickness at the 3 o'clock. The one on the right is 36.6mm diameter and 1.4mm thick.

I have my own thoughts but interested to hear what everyone thinks....

35 minutes ago, graham said:

sumserbrown,

Medal looks ok to me. An official type 2.

Thanks Graham. Yes actually never had any doubts about it - passed all of my inspections too, but always good to have the reassurance of a second opinion that confirms it.

On 30/08/2020 at 18:03, Ura87 said:

Unfortunately I don't know, but the first character is 大 "Tai" may next 正 "shō"...

Taisho would make sense as this is how the Japanese traditionally number their years, based on the year of the reign of the current emperor. Taisho 3 is 1914, Taisho 8 is 1919. The Taisho period continued until 1926 when the Showa period started under Emperor Hirohito.

I just checked my Japanese victory medal (with original ribbon) for a stamp hidden by the ribbon but I don't have one. So the question is how often do you see such a medal with a stamp and why would some ribbons have them and others not. The other possibility that occurs is that the size and shape of this stamp looks like a Hanko, the individual and unique stamps that all Japanese people use to identify themselves on official documents (instead of the Western signature). Could it be that someone has personalised their medal?

This is my medal - not the prettiest ribbon, but I did buy it at a flea market in Tokyo so it feels authentic ?

This is today's unknown medal and I would like everyone's opinion please.

So this looks like a French-made reproduction from the 20's or 30's. It has a French-made St.Mihiel clasp (MADE IN FRANCE on back). It has the ball suspension, no 'FRASER' designed name on the obverse and no edge markings at all so it looks like it should be one of Laslo's Repro Type 1's but it is only 35.4mm diameter and 2.0mm thick at the 3o'clock.

Laslo thinks the repro Type 1 should be 36mm+

My greatest regret in all my years of medal collecting was a not buying one I saw on Ebay about 14 years ago. It was a genuine US victory medal with some bars and it went for $1500 (!), but to this day I wish it had been me that bought it. It was the holy grail of US victory medals, a 9-bar version with the original clasp slip. Someone out there has it....? 

Great collection; good to have so much research to go with them too.

Rob

This thread has gone very quiet, I hope that we can jump start some interest as I really enjoy collecting the WW1 US town and county medals in particular due to the (relatively) high number of them out there and the huge diversity in the medals, ribbons and brooches. I will put up some of my favourites over the next few weeks but first a question related to Tim B's excellent postings a while back, particularly about the boxes that the medals arrived in.

I have a Seneca Co, Ohio medal made by the Robbins Company, MA. Louis Small estimates 1779 of these given to veterans but rather than coming in a small, cardboard box, mine is in a solid jewellery box, also named inside as having come from the Robbins Co. This seems a little too extravagant (and expensive?) to have given to every soldier, so does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Rob

Here is my official type 2, diameter 35.8mm with what looks and feels like a very old ribbon. Does it look original to you or is it a replacement?

I guess it's a personal choice to clean it up or leave it as it is, but if I did want to clean it, what is the best way to do this?

thanks

Rob

I bought this one as a reissue type 2 - it has a diameter of 35.9mm

any thoughts on this one?

thanks

Rob

On 30/03/2013 at 15:45, ThaiDave said:

Team,

 

RE: Thai / Siam Interallied Victory Medal Study - Copies, Reproductions, and Fakes

 

For about 6 years now I've been meaning to put together more information on Thai WW1 Interallied Victory Medal copies, and I've been closely following all sales I can find since then. I've several examples of this medal, both genuine and copy/fake, and about 150 photos of other examples (however, mostly low resolution as many come from the internet).

 

Under close examination, normally it is not so difficult to distinguish between a genuine example and a copy when compared side by side. I've posted good quality pictures of genuine example and also some common copies on the medal forums, which should be sufficient to make this determination in most cases.

 

Some time back I started, but didn't yet finish, a pictorial book of high resolution photos of different examples (see attached draft cover). I planned to make it a small private book via lulu.com (where I did my other draft Indochina medal books - in parallel to my web site www.indochinamedals.com). However, I wanted to get more example photos - especially different copies, and more information about when people have been finding these copies.

 

Therefore, this is a request for anyone who has an example of a Thai WW1 Interallied Victory Medal - genuine and also copies (other than the two museum copies), to send me a high resolution photo / scan in good sharpness. In exchange, I will send you a printed copy of the book which will include the other example hi-resolution pictures.

 

Likewise, I'd been keen to know if anyone has more specific information of purchase of various copies - especially purchase dates. i.e. How early back has Shank been selling his copies ? How early back did Blass start selling his copies - (Laslo Repro #2). Does anyone know the source of other copies ? How many have these copiers made ? Or any other information about other copies.

Likewise, if anyone has any other references for this medal, in other published sources, this would be useful - including other books which might have a small section on it. Perhaps also any old manufacturer catalogs, if there are really any other manufacturers other than the first run (i.e. the Delande remake - which is not actually documented anywhere that is public so far, or any potential others) ?

 

For anyone interested, send me a PM or email.

 

Rgds,

Dave

____________________________

 

Background:

 

There is a known genuine issue of this medal estimated about 1500 pieces. There are two reported “contemporary reproductions” of undocumented age (however one of these is reportedly manufactured by Ernst Blass). There are many known different copies of unknown age. There are at least four known current active production copies, two of which are regularly confused with the genuine type.

 

The known in-depth published information about this medal is in only one publication (Alexander Laslo – The Interallied Victory Medals of WW1). There are no known other published detailed articles, however there are probably many briefer descriptions available in other books.

 

Because of the few number of genuine pieces, and high foreign interest coupled with low local interest, most of them are probably now outside their original country Thailand. Even so, Thai dealers/collectors are secretive with knowledge about medals and foreign made copies of this medal are both manufactured locally and imported to sell locally to unsuspecting foreigners. There are at least one or two known copy examples currently made in Thailand.

 

Even without this specific knowledge, there is a large cottage medal making and medal copying industry in Thailand (mainly Buddhist amulets and Rama V medals), and it would not be difficult for a dedicated and/or resourceful person to make these medals. Some of the Thai copies of other medals are so well made that major dealers and auction houses cannot distinguish they are copies. In the field of coins, very high quality organized copying of valuable machine-struck coins that are difficult to detect for even experts has been rampant for decades - although this has occurred in several places around the world, in modern times in China this is government supported, well funded, and an organized effort. (Here is a little on medal counterfeiting here: http://www.omsa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=646 )

 

Current prices for known copies advertised as copies are around $30-50. Current prices for genuine pieces are between $1500 and $3000 depending on various factors. Laslo Reproductions 1 & 2 can regularly be found at $200-500 depending on various factors. Dubious pieces can routinely achieve now up to $600 (previously sometimes up to $800 and more). Dishonest sellers will often claim ignorance or portray obscure potential sources, probably to realize a higher price. Although most sellers are honest, some sellers often know the medals are copies when they sell them, some sellers don't care about authenticity, and some sellers just don't know.

 

Current copies are often poor enough that an experienced collector can detect them with a sufficient amount of examination, however some copies are good enough that experienced collectors have difficulty to detect them without detailed comparison with a genuine specimen.

 

My feeling is that the technology is simply available (or will be soon enough) to manufacture very excellent copies for a dedicated person that would be difficult to detect for any but an expert. Further, that there will be perhaps no experts available with the skill to detect these copies. Also, those that should be experts (major dealers & auction houses) do not always have the interest to make very difficult or thorough investigation on this.

 

I also believe that at this time, there possibly exists a pool of knowledgeable collectors who have scattered specimens, scattered information, and scattered personal history available - which can be collected together to obtain a more complete picture. Much of this information however may ultimately be lost as the personal files get destroyed and as these specimens get transferred to the next generation where they will be spread amongst a larger and looser collecting community which will not be able to compare them together as might have been previously possible.

Hi Dave,

I am back on the forum again after some time and finally re-found my Siam victory medal, which I had in carelessly misplaced! Here is a photo; I am hoping it is genuine....

Rob

Hi Bill

sorry for the slow response, I had to buy some new calipers. My type 2 is 36.1mm diameter and 2.2mm thick at the 3 o'clock position . The 2c is 27mm diameter and 1.4mm thick

Rob

Recently I have been photographing my medals (for insurance purposes) and it's amazing how much detail you can then see when you zoom into a high resolution photo.

What I see is that my version of the medal seems to be maybe lighter in colour but also with a great deal more detail visible than some of the other versions posted on the forum. So an obvious question - is my medal genuine or not. Is it such a good copy that it is TOO detailed or has it just had less wear than some of the others.

Open to any thoughts from the team...

On 17/08/2020 at 22:25, lambert said:

so beautiful ... ❤?

Ha ha ... i'm not sure that helps. Does that mean you think they are genuine, or that they're beautiful fakes? ?

and to finish off today, here is one that to me feels 100% right - the medal slip helps a lot!

best wishes to all

Rob

Hi everyone,

I have been collecting medals for a long time but for the first time in a while I have done an inventory, and for the first time ever (for insurance purposes) I am taking photos and it is amazing the details you notice when you have a high-resolution photo you can expand.

I enjoy collecting the US Victory medals and bars but thanks to threads like this I am learning a great deal and beginning to be able to spot the differences - and it seems that several of the medals I bought as genuine are suspect. However, I need your expertise on some of these. I will post some (hopefully) genuine ones as examples, and some where I compare genuine with copies/frauds. Here is my first example, a Vittorio Veneto/ DS combination I bought 11 years ago.

So it is 'rare' so it was expensive but I don't think it is genuine and here is why I think that now:

1/ The horizontal stroke in the letter 'T' in the bars have vertical downward strokes at either end, whereas official clasps are just straight. However, note that the lettering matches the DS clasp so if it is faked then someone has also faked the DS clasp to match

2/ the ring has been opened - slight gap

3/ the stitching on the edges of the ribbon just below the clasp should be purple and here it appears to be white

Any thoughts from the team (apart from caveat emptor)?

thanks

Rob

This one I bought as a four clasp (AM, SM, MA, DS) medal typical of 4th division. Strange to want to fabricate this (there must be enough genuine ones out there to satisfy the market) but to me the SM clasp looks slightly different compared to the others - it has the thinner stars you normally see on the French made clasps (although it does not say Made in France on the back). The ring also looks like it has been opened at some point.

Hello everybody,

I would like to call on your experience to help with these three medals I have had in my collection for some time. I bought them as genuine but I have my suspicions so I appreciate any honest feedback. Laslo's pictures are not clear enough, I need someone who's seen these before.

They are reputed to be (from left to right):

Laslo Official type 2

Unofficial type 1 (narrow cylinder)

Unofficial type 1 (wire suspension)

and the reverse

Hi all,

I am back on the forum after a few years away. I wanted to do a reality check on some of my medals and check with the experts whether these are genuine or fakes (as I am suspicious about some of them). Please give me your thoughts:

Here then are three Portuguese victory medals  with the descriptions given them when I bought them (left to right):

Laslo official type 2

Laslo unofficial type 1 with narrow cylinder suspension

Laslo unofficial type 1 with wire suspension

and here the reverse in the same order.

Hi everybody,

I am back on the forum after an absence of a few years. I read through the thread and it didn't seem anyone had posted any pictures of the unofficial Type 2c. Here is the obverse of the Type 2 with the T2c next to it.

best wishes

Rob

and here is the reverse. Both medals are stamped on the edge with BRONZE. On the 2c you can see the hallmark, but it is obscured on the T2 because of where they have attached the knob.

Laslo says the Type 2c should be considered rare but anybody have any idea how many of these were made or can they say how many they have come across in the past?

best wishes

Rob