Claudio

I also don't get it from the Germans... so perfectionists, but in the end not so perfect... no first names... there were quite a lot of these: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_häufigsten_Familiennamen_in_Deutschland also back then!!! ...Maybe in the next 20 years there will be more other names like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_name

Thanks for your nice comments and your efforts ... I knew that this wouldn't have been so "easy"...

Amazing! How you can do that?

Hi Paul!

I am inclined to think too, that Rick might have the "solution"...

Ciao,

C

Dear Forumites, dear Rick, dear research gnomes!

Here I have a bar in my possession, which is complete of photograph of the wearer, but alas not of his name!

Maybe it can be identified thanks to the oval silver duke Carl Eduard's medal with swords date (18.10.1914, Wolga/Wolra? hard to decipher, but quite possibly the site name must be located in the Eastern front, Poland?).

Here's the description of the bar and some detailled pictures:

• Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, 1914 (OEK 1909), E/S mit Wiederholungsspange „1939“ zum EK 2. Kl. 1914 Halbminiatur (OEK 3825/1)
• Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, Ovale silberne Herzog Carl Eduard-Medaille mit Schwerterspange „1915“ und Datumspange für erneute tapferer Handlung mit Datum 18.10.1914 (OEK 2688/1), S
• Sächsische Herzogtümer, SEHO Medaille Herzog Carl Eduard in Silber mit Schwerterspange „1914“ für Kriegsverdienst (OEK 2550)
• Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (OEK 3803/1)
• Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938 (OEK 3517), Br
• Ungarn, 1. Weltkriegs-Erinnerungsmedaille

Very likely in WWI was a senior NCO, Feldwebel-Leutnant or even a leutnant d.R. when the war finished. Obviously in WWII was recalled to duty to be assigned to some administrative duties.

Thanks for looking into this matter and any comments are most appreciated!

ciao,

Claudio

his medal bar....

Very, very nice bar... these Mecklenburg LS awards are scarcely seen on bars... but such a complete documented set, it's quite unique. So many things have been lost or irreducibly taken apart. Therefore to see such a complete group it's always nice and let hope all of us, that there aren't so few of them left or even better, groups that have been split and are being pulled together again by very conscientious fellow collectors and history enthusiasts, who have fortunately the financial means (yes, it is quite an expensive hobby), patience and knowledge to do so.

Congrats!

very, very nice! It's incredible how long he has live (for that time) and saw so many things changing is life...

Thanks for showing!

Don't worry Rick, I wasn't planning to... I never thought that that group could be researchable...

ciao,

Claudio

Amazing research work...

I will put mine too... Maybe some of the forumites have already seen it; it has been in my collection for more than 20 years and 18 years after I found the ribbon bar which went with. A fellow collector had the ribbon bar in the collection and I immediately recognized the combination and also the label on the back...

Enjoy...

ciao,

Claudio

Hi Rick,

It's exactly what I thought when you came up with this list... the only way to find him it is to search in the archives... Too bad, that I am currently in Moscow!

What a great coincedence to find a photo of original owner... after so long... way to go!!!!

Hi guys! Thanks a lot for your efforts... I feel bad to have given you so much trouble. It looks like such a research can be successfull if I would spend ours at the local archives (Baden) and even if that is possible, it won't be sure that I could be able to find him. These NCO bars are great, but what a pain to be researched!

Thanks anyway!

Claudio

Hi Dave!

Great job!!!

Let me know if you need any help to transcribe (typing up) any of these lists (like Anhalt Friedrichskreuz), I'd be happy to help.

ciao,

Claudio

Yeah... I am running out of bars...

ONLY 557 BZ4K's!!! I didn't know that... but easily immaginable...

Dear forumites, dear Rick and most knowledgeable research gnomes...

Is it ever possible to identified such a medal bar:

• Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1914 am Kämpferband (1909), E/S
• Preußen, Krieger-Verdienstmedaille, 1873-1918, Rückseite „WR“, am Kämpferband (OEK 1894)
• Baden, Orden vom Zähringer Löwen, Verdienstkreuz am Kriegsband (OEK 160)
• Baden, Großherzog Friedrich I. 1856-1907, Grosse silberne Medaille (OEK 206 )
• Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (OEK 3803/1), ohne Hersteller
• Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Polizei-DA 1. Stufe für 25 Jahre treue Dienstleistungen (OEK 3526)
• Preußen, DA-Kreuz für 25 Jahre der Offiziere, 3. Modell (OEK 1970)
• Baden, DA 1. Klasse für 15 Dienstjahre, 1913-1918, Kreuz (OEK 313)
• Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, Südwestafrika-Denkmünze für Kämpfer mit Gefechtsspangen ORANJE, KARAS-BERGE, GROSS-NAMALAND und KALAHARI 1908 (OEK 3165, 3180, 3174, 3172, 3181)

Well, if not, at least, let me show you this beautiful bar.

ciao,

Claudio

I just wanted to stop a beautiful illustrated page of the book I mentioned before... you can see the last bar? It's also from very likely a doctor of some tipe, very likely he has never seen the front line.

@ Glenn: thanks for your additional information!

Wow... incredible... where you get all this data?! Thanks to you both!

My brother has also a nice cute nice tuxedo bar for a Anhalt citizen who was very likely a "Sanitäter" in WW1, maybe not even at the front, but in some hospital (Feldlazarett in Anhalt?):

• Anhalt-Gesamtstaat, Friedrich-Kreuz, 1914-18 am Nichtkämpferband (OEK 81)
• Preußen, Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe, 1917-24 (OEK 1966)
• Anhalt, Hausorden Albrecht des Bären, Ritterzeichen 2. Klasse (OEK 14)
• Preußen, Rote Kreuz Medaille, 3. Klasse, 1898-1917 (OEK 1872)

the FA Cross 2nd on the rare non-combattant ribbon. The combo is maybe not unique, but I think not many got this the FA Cross 2nd class on that very ribbon (700-800, according to Scharfenberg's book "Die Orden und Ehrenzeichen der Anhaltischen Staaten, ISBN 3-932543-56-4, PHV Verlag Michael Altengruber).

Maybe Dave will be able to give us more precise data and numbers on that... that would be quite revealing!

Thanks again!!!

Guys... you are really fantastic... I never believed that this bar would be possible to identify....

I really hope that Dave can come up for other interesting details...

Thanks again for your patience and dedication!

PS at Paul: hope to meet you in Gunzenhausen soon!

@ Rick: it's what I was hoping for...

@ Paul: thanks! Let's see if Dave can confirm it.

Second one... maybe also impossible to identify, are the orders and medals too common?

• Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1914 am Kämpferband (OEK 1909), E/S
• Preußen, DA-Kreuz für 25 Jahre der Offiziere, 3. Modell (OEK 1970)
• Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, Südwestafrika-Denkmünze aus Stahl für Nichtkämpfer, 1907 (OEK 3166)
• Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, China-Denkmünze aus Stahl für Nichtkämpfer, 1901 (OEK 3151)
• Preußen, Centenarmedaille, 1897 (OEK 1965/1), GBr
• Bayern, Militär-Verdienstorden, 1866-1921, Kreuz 4. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 410), Sv
• Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz (OEK 688)
• Weimarer Republik, Deutscher Reichskriegsbund „Kyffhäuser“, Kriegsdenkmünze 1914/18 mit gekreuzten Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (DN 2.02.34 a/b)

Thanks for looking!

ciao,

Claudio

You never know... to me, it's quite difficult if not impossible, but at least I can share the pictures...

1st bar 7 place medal bar for tuxedo (civilian dress attire) with the rare non-combattant IC 2nd class 1914

• Preußen, Eiserne Kreuz 1914 2. Klasse am Nichtkämpferband (OEK 1909) E/S ca. 13'000 Verleihungen!
• Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, China-Denkmünze aus Stahl für Nichtkämpfer, 1901 (OEK 3151)
• Bayern, König Ludwig Kreuz geschwärzt (OEK 458)
• Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer ohne Schwertern (OEK 3803/2), Hersteller GWL Gebrüder Wegerhoff, Lüdenscheid
• Preußen, Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse (OEK 1762), Br vg, Hersteller Wilm Juwelier in Berlin
• Preußen, Centenarmedaille, 1897 (OEK 1965/1), GBr
• Preußen, DA-Kreuz für 25 Jahre der Offiziere, 3. Modell (OEK 1970)

Dear Rick and research gnomes...

Any chance to identify this one? The combination might be unique... with the Anhalt Friedrich-Cross which makes the circle of potential wearer of this bar possible to find (cross my fingers).

• Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse (OEK 1909), E/S
• Preußen, Preußen, Rotes Kreuz Medaille 3. Klasse (OEK 1872), Br
• Sachsen-Königreich, Albrechtsorden Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 2206), Hersteller R (Punze im unteren Arm) für Roesner, Sv
• Württemberg, Friedrichs-Orden, Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse (OEK 298?), Sv
• Anhalt-Gesamtstaat, Friedrich-Kreuz, 1914-18 am Kämpferband (OEK 81)
• Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz (OEK 688)
• Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (OEK 3803/1)

I don't think that he must have been necessarly a doctor (see Pr RKM3), but the fact that he was not a professional career officer and long service awards (active career officer or reserve), doesn't make certainly the search easier.

Thanks in advance for your most appreciated comments...

ciao,

Claudio

Strange prices... the 2nd classes crosses were worth the same amount of money if not more than the stars 2nd class. The 1st class star was the same price of the 2nd class star...

C

I also have some doubts that the EK2 1914 is the original one attached on this bar. Maybe a earlier EK2 1870 was replaced by a EK2 1914. All other orders and medals look tightly (very) attached to the ribbons and the bar. Also on the back it looks untouched, just WM3 has been attached with a different thread... But this doesn't disturb me, because very likely it was given back to the competent order chancery, when the wearer died.

...just some thoughts.... but by the way the bar is constructed, it's quite a typical Württemburg'sche Schnalle/Spange... look also how the ribbons on the back are folded (not like a bow)...

C