Claudio

Hi Rick,

No, as far as I know this bar wasn't in Seymour collection, since I got it not from Thies but from another auction hause. I don't recall to have it seen before, either.

Ciao,

Claudio

Impressive Rick...

You dectected immediately that it's a Godet feldspange, also if the backing has been changed... its big brother (Ordensspange) is a GODET as well...

Is there a way to confirm the other decorations, at least the SW-Denkm?nze or the Ehrenkreuz des deutschen Roten Kreuzes?

Ciao,

Claudio

Dear forumites,

A new addition to my collection: a 7 place ribbon bar of a medical officer.

1) Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, 1914

2) S?chsiche Herzogt?mer ab 1826, SEHO, RK 1. Klasse mit Schwertern

3) Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz f. Frontk?mpfer (Hindenburg cross)

4) Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, S?dwestafrika-Denkm?nze

5) Preussen, Rote Kreuz Medaille

6) Ehrenzeichen des deutschen Roten Kreuzes

7) Preussen, Centenarmedaille

On the back of the ribbon bar there is a name written on it: could that be the owner's name? The first name looks like beginning with B/R/F/H and ending by rd/nd or ch (so it could be Bernhard, Bernd, Richard, Friedrich or even Heinrich). The surname looks almost surely like Kaiser.

Anyone could help me??? Any comments??

I thank you in advance for your most appreciated inputs.

Ciao,

Claudio

... and I have already seen a Landwehr-DA 2. Kl. worn by officers...

I have already seen a RAO mit Schleife without a PCO... I don't have any problems with it! Maybe he had a PCO 2. Kl., who knows?

First of all, before saying anything, a bar, especially if it has such valuble orders like RAO 3. Kl. mit Schleife, should be inspected personally and have a UV-Light test. In this case the medal bar seems to be very well and correctly mounted and the construction seems alright, however from these out of focus pictures is difficult to tell. It seems also that the Landwehr-Medaille wasn't fooled with. Maybe like Rick L. said the wearer of this bar could have been an old guy who just wanted his medals to be put together later (after 1913). Maybe he was wearing a DA-Schnalle before. Nichtk?mpfer-Colonial medals and Nichtk?mpfer EK look quite consistent. I really like to see it in person... if it is not a Godet bar (see back), any juweller or dealer could have mounted... even today. I don't want to sound paranoid, but but parts of bars (ribbons, medal supporst, needle) can be easely found on the marked (Ebay).

The only very bad thing of this bar is, if also we could say that is original, it will be quite impossible to research the medal bar owner's name.

Ciao,

Claudio

Very nice frackspange Andreas!!! Wow... I like the Hessian Brabant Order... these are extremely rare, especially to see them mounted on a bar!

Ciao,

Claudio

Another amazing group sold by Niemann: Kommandant LZ-38 Hauptmann Erich Linnarz! -That was also out of my price range...

not in my collection (unfortunately)...

Vizeadmiral Lietzmann

All the decorations, pictures, etc. were sold a couple of year ago by Detlev Niemann.

In this case IMHO the recipient of the medal bar must be within one of the 6 civilians!

Charles John Henry Minte, Director of Postal Service to HIM

Otto Hermann M?ller, Director of the Telegraphic Service to HIM

Eugene Charles Frederick Henniger, Chief of the Special Police

Geheimer Hofrath Richard Buro, Secretary to the Lord Steward

Hofrath Augustus Charles Henry Wasmund, Superintendent, Master of the Horse's Department

For sure he was a wealthy person since all the enamalled orders are made of Gold and Godet (very expensive dealer at those times) put together the bar.

Ciao,

Claudio

Hi Paul,

Yes, the photo comes from the German Admiral's book.

Ciao,

Claudio

My latest purchase (I think Paul was quite interested to see this one!!! ):

des Konteradmirals z.S. aD Johannes Redlich

(*14.12.1866 - ? 14.11.1925)

• ? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Kl., 1914 (OEK 1909), ?se repariert
• ? Preussen, Roter Adler Orden 3 Klasse mit der Schleife (OEK 1687), Gold, Hersteller Wagner (W), leichte Kr?tzer und Chips am oberen Arm.
• ? Preussen, DA-Kreuz f?r 25 Jahre der Offz., 3.Mod., 1.Typ (OEK 1970)
• ? Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, S?dwestafrika-Denkm?nze (OEK 3166), aus Stahl f?r Nichtk?mpfer
• ? Deutsches Reich, China Denkm?nze f?r K?mpfer (OEK 3150)
• ? Preussen, Centenarmedaille, 1897 (OEK 1965/1), GBr
• ? Oldenburg, Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Kl. am K?mpferband (OEK 1563)
• ? Bremen, Hanseatenkreuz 1915-1918 (OEK 651), ca. 20'000 Verleihungen
• ? Osmanisches Reich, Silberne Medaille auf den Besuch Kaiser Wilhelm II. in Konstantinopel am 2. November 1889

Aus den Marineverordnungsbl?ttern und Ranglisten ersichtlich :

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. T?rk. Erinnerungsmed. a.d. Besuch KW II, Silber Unterleutnant z.S. 1892, 09.05. W?RTTEMBERG, Wachoffizier

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. Centenarmedaille Leutnant zur See 1897, 03.22.S FALKE, Wachoffizier

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. DR Chinadenkm?nze f?r K?mpfer Kapit?nleutnant 1901, 05.10.S WOERTH, Wach- und Artillerieoffizier

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapit?nleutnant 1901, 08.04. WOERTH, Wach- und Artillerieoffizier

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV Korvettenkapit?n 1907, 05.11. Reichsmarineamt, Waffendepartement

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. Fregattenkapit?n 1911, 01.22. Reichsmarineamt, Waffendepartement

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. RAO 3. Kl. m. Schleife Kapit?n zur See 1912, 09.19. Reichsmarineamt, Waffendepartement

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. Kronen-O. 2. Kl. m. Schwertern Kapit?n z.S. 1917, 10.31. Reichsmarineamt, Vorstand Seetransportabteilung

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Bremen, Hanseatenkreuz Kapit?n zur See 1918, 02.14.R Reichsmarineamt, Vorstand Seetransportabteilung

Redlich, Johannes 1887, 04.15. Pr. Eisernes Kreuz 1914 I. Kl. Kapit?n zur See 1918, 02.14.R

Milit?rische Laufbahn:

15.04.1887 Eintritt in die Marine als Kadett

19.04.1888 (K) Seekadett

23.05.1890 Unterleutnant zur See, Patentierung vorbehalten

13.10.1891 Patent als Unterleutnant zur See mit RDA, vom 23.05.1890 (G)

10.04.1893 Leutnant zur See, Patentierung vorbehalten

28.09.1893 Patent als Leutnant zur See mit RDA, vom 10.04.1893 (L)

01.01.1899 umernannt zum Oberleutnant zur See

09.04.1900 Kapit?nleutnant

21.03.1905 (K) Korvettenkapit?n

06.09.1909 Fregattenkapit?n

10.04.1911 Kapit?n zur See

18.09.1918 Konteradmiral

30.01.1919 verabschiedet

15.04.1887 ? 30.09.1887 Grundausbildung u. Schulschiff ?Niobe?

01.10.1887 ? 27.03.1888 Marineschule

28.03.1888 ? 24.04.1888 Spezialkurse

25.04.1888 ? 20.09.1888 Kreuzerfregatte ?Prinz Adalbert?

26.09.1888 ? 30.04.1889 Kreuzerfregatte ?Charlotte?

01.05.1889 ? 30.09.1890 Panzerschiffe ?Kaiser? u. ?Deutschland?

01.10.1890 ? 18.09.1891 Marineschule

19.09.1891 ? 06.08.1892 Artillerieschulschiff ?Mars?, Waffenkurs u. Panzerschiff ?Oldenburg?, Wachoffizier

08.08.1892 ? 22.09.1892 Panzerschiff ?W?rttemberg?, Wachoffizier

23.09.1892 ? 20.03.1893 Panzerfahrzeug ?Beowulf?, Wachoffizier

21.03.1893 ? 14.08.1893 zugl. Torpedodivisionsboot ?D 6?, Erster Offizier

15.08.1893 ? 30.09.1893 zugl. Torpedoboot ?S 69?, Kommandant

01.10.1893 ? 16.04.1894 zugl. Torpedodivisionsboot ?D 6?, Erster Offizier

17.04.1894 ? 16.08.1894 zugl. Torpedoboot ?S 69?, Kommandant

17.08.1894 ? 28.12.1894 zugl. Torpedodivisionsboot ?D 6?, Erster Offizier

29.12.1894 ? 31.03.1895 zugl. Torpedodivisionsboot ?D 9?, Erster Offizier

24.04.1895 ? 05.06.1895 Ausreise nach Sydney mit D. ?Darmstadt?

06.06.1895 ? 22.04.1897 Kleiner Kreuzer ?Falke?, Wachoffizier

23.04.1897 ? 30.09.1897 Heimreise aus Sydney u. z. Vfg. der II. Marine-Inspektion

01.10.1897 ? 30.09.1899 Torpedoschulschiff ?Bl?cher?, Lehrer

01.10.1899 ? 24.11.1901 Linienschiff ?W?rth?, Wach- und Artillerieoffizier

25.11.1901 ? 30.09.1903 Stab Marinestation der Nordsee, Adjudant

25.11.1901 ? 24.02.1902 zugl. Tender ?D 2?, Kommandant

25.02.1902 ? 30.09.1903 zugl. Tender ?Alice Roosevelt?, Kommandant

01.10.1903 ? 30.09.1905 II. Torpedo-Abteilung, Kompanief?hrer

13.10.1903 ? 28.03.1904 zugl. Torpedoboot ?S 114?, Kommandant

15.10.1903 ? 14.12.1903 zugl. Chef der 6. Torpedobootsdivision

06.04.1903 ? 30.09.1904 zugl. Chef der 6. Torpedobootsdivision

02.05.1905 ? 10.06.1905 zugl. Chef der 6. Torpedobootsdivision u. Kommandant des Torpedodivisionsbootes ?D 9?

16.08.1905 ? 15.09.1905 zugl. Chef der 6. Torpedobootsdivision u. Kommandant des Torpedodivisionsbootes ?D 8?

01.10.1905 ? 07.10.1906 Reichsmarineamt, in der Waffenabteilung

08.10.1906 ? 21.09.1908 Reichsmarineamt/Waffendepartement, Dezernent f. Angelegenheiten der K?stenbefestigungen u. Artilleriedepots

22.09.1908 ? 02.11.1908 Ausreise nach Duala mit D. ?Lucie Woermann?

03.11.1908 ? 02.11.1909 Kleiner Kreuzer ?Sperber?, Kommandant

03.11.1909 ? 30.11.1909 Heimreise aus Kamerun mit D. ?Lucie Woermann?

01.12.1909 ? 15.09.1910 Reichsmarineamt/Waffendepartement, Dezernent f. Angelegenheiten der K?stenbefestigungen u. Artilleriedepots

bzw. Derzenent f?r Probefahrten u. milit?rische Bauangelegenheiten im Konstruktionsdepartement

16.09.1910 ? 30.09.1913 Reichsmarineamt/Waffendepartement, Vorstand der Abt. f. Aufstellung u. Behandlung des Artilleriemat. an Bord

04.10.1913 ? 25.09.1916 Linienschiff ?Westfalen?, Kommandant

01.11.1916 ? 18.09.1918 Reichsmarineamt, Vorstand der Seetrasnportabteilung

19.09.1918 ? 30.12.1918 Schiffsbesichtigungskommision, Pr?ses

31.12.1918 ? 30.01.1919 z. Vfg. des Chefs der Marinestation des Nordsee

here's the reverse...

This is also another happy ending story... thanks again to Daniel (K.) for having found again THE picture of Prince Georg von Sachsen-Meining wearing the exactly same bar!!!

What about this piece which is currently on a catalogue of a German auctioneer... any comments? It comes with the original case...

Ciao,

Claudio

The identification of this officer (Oberst M?ckel) was really something quite extraordinary to me... thanks Daniel (K.) who saw the picture on German Ebay and to Rick (L.) for the research... unbelievable!!!!

Oberst N?sslein wearing not really the same ribbon bar, but almost quite... it was the one he wore before the annexation of Austria. The dealer told me that the family sold to him many other items; he had like 2 or 3 EK 1. Kl. and FAK 1. Kl.

What it was even more incredible about this officer's documents is that his F?hrerschein (driver's licence) plus the same picture surfaced on German Ebay a couple of months ago... I tried to bid on the F?hrerschein, but apparently some bidders went completely insane and unfortunately I couldn't win the auction.

Hi Paul,

Actually I found it very difficult, too, to find a photo of the medal bar's recipient wearing it. Of course I always keep an eye open in case I can put a face to a medal bar of mine.

Here is my first bar with owner's picture... this picture was provided by the auctioneer many months after the sale of the bar (Oberst von Stockhausen):

Dear forumites,

I am posting a "Miniaturkette" with its "Etui" being auctioneered soon by Herrn Carsten Zeige. As the description says this miniatures should have belonged to the Bavarian minister of the interior Maximilian Frh. von Feilitsch:

Kat.Nr.: 35

8. Miniaturkette mit 10 Auszeichnungen, Verdienstorden der Bayerischen Krone (Gold), Verdienstorden vom hl. Michael (Gold), Ehrenkreuz des Ludwigs-Orden (Gold), Jubil?umsmedaille f?r die bayerische Armee 1905, Oldenburg Verdienstorden von Herzog Peter Friedrich Ludwig Ritterkreuz mit Krone (Silber vergoldet), Preu?en Kronenorden Kreuz 4. Klasse, Kriegsdenkm?nze 1870/71, Armeedenkzeichen 1866, Dienstauszeichnung Kreuz f?r 24 Jahre, Zentenarmedaille 1897. Die 16mm Miniaturen an feinem Kettchen, im Originaletui der Firma Quellhorst M?nchen. Nach Angaben des Einlieferers aus dem Nachla? des Innenministers Maximilian Freiherr von Feilitsch.

A short "Lebenslauf" of this minister (sorry in German), from Wikipedia (Germany):

Maximilian Alexander Freiherr von Feilitzsch, ab 1904 Graf von Feilitzsch (* 12. August 1834 in Trogen, Oberfranken; ? 19. Juni 1913 in M?nchen), Dr.med. h.c., war k?niglich bayrischer Staatsminister des Innern.

Feilitzsch, aus einem altem vogtl?ndisch-fr?nkischen Adelsgeschlecht mit gleichnamigem Stammhaus Feilitzsch bei Hof, war k?niglich bayerischer K?mmerer, Staatsrat, Staatsminister des Innern und bayerischer Bevollm?chtigter zum Bundesrat des Deutschen Reiches.

Er studierte zun?chst Rechtswissenschaften, trat dann in den bayrischen Staatsdienst und wurde 1862 Bezirksamtsassessor in Neustadt an der Saale. 1865 wurde er Sekret?r, 1867 Regierungsrat und 1872 Oberregierungsrat im Ministerium des Innern. Im Jahr 1866 und 1870-1871 war er als Zivilkommissar beim bayrischen Heer t?tig, erhielt 1876 die Leitung der Polizeidirektion in M?nchen und wurde 1879 Pr?sident der Regierung von Oberbayern.

Im Jahr 1881 wurde Feilitzsch Nachfolger von Sigmund von Pfeufer als Staatsminister des Innern und hielt dieses Amt bis 1907. In einigen Punkten kam er den sozialpolitischen W?nschen der klerikalen Mehrheit des Abgeordnetenhauses entgegen, ohne aber in den Hauptfragen die freisinnigen Grunds?tze zu verleugnen.

Feilitzsch wurde am 11. August 1904 in M?nchen in den bayerischen Grafenstand erhoben. Er wurde 1913 auf dem Schlo?friedhof in Wolframshof, einem (Ortsteil von Kastl (Landkreis Tirschenreuth, Oberpfalz), in einer Grabkapelle beigesetzt.

Ehrungen Feilitzschstra?e in M?nchen (1890)

Ehrenb?rger der Stadt M?nchen (1903)

Strangely enough I compared the list of Feilitzsch's orders with the Hof- und Staatshandbuch, K?nigreichs Bayern (1909), but I have found these orders being listed:

? Haus-Ritterorden vom Heiligen Hubertus

? Verdienst-Orden der bayerischen Krone, Grosskreuz

? Verdienst-Orden vom Heiligen Michael, Grosskreuz

? MVO 3. Klasse mit Schwertern

? Prinz-Regent-Luitpold Medaille, Goldene u. silberne Medaille

? Kriegsdenkm?nze 1870-71 aus Stahl am Kombattanten-Bande

? Herzogl. Anhalt Hausorden, Komturkreuz 2. Klasse (?)

? Italien, St. Maurizius u. St. Lazarus-Orden, Offizier

? Italien, Kronenorden, Grosskreuz

? F?rstl. Lippisch. Hausorden, Grosskreuz

? Kaiserl. ?sterreich. Franz Josef-Orden, Komtur

? Preussen, RAO Grosskreuz

? Preussen, EK 2. Kl. w 1870 (am weissen Bande?)

? Zentenarmedaille

? Russland, St. Stanislaus-Orden 1. Klasse

? Sachsen, Albrechtsorden, Grosskreuz mit goldenem Stern

? K?nigl. Orden der W?rttembergische Krone, Grosskreuz

As you can see there are some discrepancies. Apart from the Foreign Orders that were likely chosen not to worn on the Miniaturkette, I find hard to believe that he didn't put some other important German orders, like the Iron Cross, but I might be wrong. I don't see many important Bavarian orders either being mounted on the miniature chain, like the MVO, Hubertus-Order and so on... very strange, indeed! Either the Handbuch is all full of errors or maybe the identification of that miniature is pure speculation...

What do you think? I appreciate your inputs very much.

Ciao,

Claudio

@ Ed: I have already been told that the orders' chancery in London is not very cooperative in such matters. Maybe there is still somebody among the collecting community who has direct access to their archives. I find it a bit stupid to preclude such info which should be of Public interest. For example the Kriegsarchiv in M?nchen has been very cooperative, efficent and very fast in mailing me photocopies of a Military career of a Bavarian WWI officer; I didn't even have to pay for the shipping costs. I would have gladly paid up to Eur 50.- for such info.

@ DutchBoy: it's Prussian bar since such civilian bars were worn on a tuxedo. Also the mounting is typical German as well the company which mounted this bar (Godet & Sohn). All the enameled crosses are in GOLD.

Ciao,

Claudio

Dear forumites,

I know it's a long shot, but maybe somebody among you has access or has the complete list by numbers of the Royal Victorian Order. I am actually after of identify who was the original owner of the CVO numbered 308 (marked on the center medallion on the reverse).

Here the details of the medal in German and a picture of the medal bar for civilians (Frackspange):

? Preussen, Roter Adler Orden 4. Klasse, letztes Modell, gek?rnte Arme (OEK 1704)

? Preussen, Kronen Orden 3. Klasse, 2. Modell, Gold und Emaille, Hersteller FR (OEK 1757)

? Oldenburg, Haus- und Verdienstorden Herzog Peter Friedrich Ludwigs, Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse, Gold und Emaille (OEK 1516)

? Russland, St.-Anna-Orden 3. Klasse, Gold und Emaille

? Grossbritannien, K?niglicher Victoria Orden, Ritterkreuz (CVO), Silber vergoldet und emailliert mit Tr?gernummer 308

Thanks in advance for any inputs you can give me on the above-mentioned British order.

Ciao,

Claudio

Hi webr55!

Nice clean bar... I am happy that you could win the bar at the HH auction!

I really like the Terremoto di Messina medal... very nice! I saw that quite often they the Ordenslieferanten used to closest match to the original ribbon...

Nice Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer marked Godet & Sohn (G & S), too!

Here's my bar for comparison of the above-mentioned medal and ribbon.

Ciao,

Claudio

Just for your information I didn't purchase the medal bar. It was only interesting for me to notice that I saw the original bar being worn on a picture from another forum with another officer's name (the correct one given here by Rick L.).

I don't find serious for an auctioneer to put the wrong name on a medal bar... that's it! It would have been better no name at all. What I find also bad is that miniatures or ribbon bars belonging to identified medal bars are not even offered in the auction but splitted and diluted in several different auctions with no reference saying that ribbon bar belongs to that specific medal bar.

Just my 2 cents.

Ciao,

Claudio

Dear forumites,

I was going through the WAF forum and I just found a photo of a High Officer with a medal bar sold a couple of years ago on a Thies auction. I really think it's the same bar! I like when I can find stuff like these...

Ciao,

Claudio

here the medal bars for those who haven't seen them...