Bison

Hi Tim I just have a look on the link, and only on the French China Medal 1900 - 1901... http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/foreigngu...e_1900_1901.htm The hallmarks on the medal itself are from the right period. But the hallmarks shown on the bar prove that the bar was manufactured circa 1994 - 1996!!!!!!! and probably sold after ... Regards Bison

I can hardly imagine that such a common medal (French 'Morlon' model) could be copied... The point is this medal was made by different manufacturers. Therefore, quality is sometimes different. The medal shown by Hauptman is made by La Monnaie de Paris. Here is another 'Morlon' model but made by another manufacturer. The hallmarks on the reverse at 06:00 are different (triangle - BR). quality is also different. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-2068-1246814471.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-2068-1246813897.jpg Regards Bison

Tim There is some French members in the club able to help you, if needed. This web site is really a reference for the French Orders, Decorations and Medals. There is also a French Forum, with a part in English : http://zitocland.forumpro.fr/forum.htm It is probably the most serious and expert Forum in France about medals. Subscription is totally free. Regards Bison

Garth, There are many sizes for the L?gion d'honneur! As far as it was mandatory to wear permanently this order, the jewellers made several sizes to be worn on civilian clothes. The full size was always worn in uniform (except on spencer). In fact, it was only a question of elegance and 'coquetterie', I would say. Therefore, we find 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 size medals. They were made for civilian dress. Here is a catalog from 1900 with different choices : And an example of IIIrd Republic full and 3/4 size in gold : Nowadays, we do not find this kind of sizes, but for women in the ranks of Grand Officier and Grand Croix which are still 3/4 size. I hope this answers your question... Regards Bison

Very strange group... Obviously, the crown of the LoH is missing. But more questionning is to find Henri IV and Napoleon together... If the owner has been able to repair the missing crown (or to cut it off himself), he would be able to change the centre! If he is a Grande Arm?e veteran, as the Ste H?l?ne medal shows, I suppose he would be keen of replacing the figure by the Emperor. The M?daille de Sainte H?l?ne was instituted in 1857 by Napol?on III. The centres of the LoH shown here were instituted during the 'Monarchie de Juillet', 1830 - 1848. After this period, the LoH kept back the Emperor face on the ovserve and the Eagle on the reverse up to 1870. The last supposition could be that the Veteran cut the crown to give a 1st type-look to his LoH cross. But why let King Henri IV? Regards Bison

Thanks a lot for this answer confirming that the Monnaie de Paris was the producer. The theory of other private models seems to be not confirmed. Yours Bison

Congratulations for this fantastic and absolutely scarce M?rite de l'Afrique Noire Just a question: is there a mark on it? Usually we use to find the "Monnaie de Paris" mark (a cornucopia) with the mention "Bronze". La Monnaie de Paris is theorically the exclusive producer of this medal. But I have read that some have also a triangular private mark... this could prove that some were manufactured by other factories. But I have never seen this 'private' made medal. Thanks for sharing this extraordinary medal. regards Bison

Salut Fran?ois Il n'y a pas de mal, je connais ?a aussi ! The most important is to pass the right information. Cordialement Bison

Hi TacHel I do not agree this statement. The 'MAROC' clasp was instituted by the law of 27 February 1912. Two decrees (15 May 1912 & 4 June 1913) extended retroactively the clasp award to all operations in Morocco after 1909. La M?daille Nationale Comm?morative des Op?rations effectu?es au Maroc (it is the official full name) has not been awarded after the 20 July 1912 (date of the ratification of the protectorate treaty of the 30 March 1912). However, the "M?daille Coloniale" with a clasp "MAROC", "MAROC 1925", "1925 MAROC 1926" was awarded in place of this medal for the pacification operations (and not just for service in the country) which continued after the protectorate treaty. Around 63,200 medals were awarded between 1909 and 1912. Regards Bison Reference : "Ordres et D?corations de l'Empire Ch?rifien au temps du Protectorat fran?ais au Maroc" Pierre ROUSSEAU, M?moire & Documents, 2005.

An illustration with one of my collection: regards Bison

Moreover, it is a very nice model, probably made by a private jeweller. Very nice, thank you for sharing. Regards Bison

About General Lassalle, who was one of the most extraordinary and eccentric character of the period : He said in 1800 (he was 25) : "any hussar who is not dead at 30 is a 'Jean-Foutre' (we could translate '######ing bastard' sorry)". He died at 34. In his last letter to his wife he wrote : "My heart is for you, my blood for the Emperor, my life for Honour".

Yes, I was thinking about national and colonial orders mainly, I'd have better to say 'the majority' are not offered. But even for bravery, you have to buy it sometimes... In my former regiment some soldiers were awarded of the valour cross by the Defense minister and the Army Chief of staff themselves: in this case the crosses were offered. For the others, who were decorated by delegation in the regiment, no one cross was given. We had to buy them by ourselves. I think that only the M?daille d'honneur du travail (Labour Medal of Honor) is systematically given for free and named ..

Hello Garth Happy to be helpful. I would just add that hybrids from the 1st Empire are scarce... this explains that. On the other hand, they are hard to be identified with certainty, and from my perspective you got it for a good price. For the officer grade from the 3rd Republic, it is usually found in silver, gold plated. But every jeweller proposed solid gold models. You can recognize them with a small head of eagle mark, generally stamped on the ribbon at 0600 hours. For silver, it is a small head of boar. A solid gold officer of the LH (3rd Republic) is not scarce. Since the end of WW1, the French State no more offered any medal, you (or your dear friends) has to provide (buy) it! Therefore, the choice is up to the recipient or to the comrades who are offering the medal. This explains you could find many different types of quality, and consequently and unfortunately very poor ones. To be complete, the official mint provider, the Monnaie de Paris, is providing only silver/gold plated officers of the L?gion d'honneur. As you see, nothing is simple when we watch carefully the L?gion d'honneur. Yours Bison

Hi Garth I am back about your L?gion d'honneur 1st Empire / 2nd restoration. A similar model is for sale here, for around 1,388 USD : http://www.liverpoolmedals.com/product.htm...mp;prdid=L14320 Even if I find this price a little exagerated, it confirms the identification and the high value of your medal. Congratulations again Bison

Hi Fred Yes you are right, Al Amin Bey period is 1942 - 1957, shame on me In addition to your document showing the name litteraly, here is the cypher (or one example, I would say): A a consequence the KVDR medal shows the litteral name of Mohammed Al Amin, but differs from the 'artistic' cypher. So, this is another evidence to say it is a French made decoration. Regards

As an addition to my previous post, you can find some most relevant information here : http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/engels/colle...roix_frame.html in the Royal Army Museum of Brussels which has a fantastic collection about the L?gion d'honneur (almost comparable to the French L?gion d'honneur Museum of Paris). And as a comparison, here is a 'pure' Second Restauration model from my collection : http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2009/post-2068-1236792955.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2009/post-2068-1236792971.jpg Regards

Hello Garth Congratulations and thanks for sharing. This L?gion d'honneur is a 'Second Restoration' because of the centers... but the star was made during the First Empire, probably a "3rd Type". Therefore this is a so called 'hybrid' type, modified along the political changes. This is a VERY nice one, because it is made with one of the original 1st Empire one. In the First restoration model, the head of King Henri IV is looking left and on the reverse there is a crown over the three fleurs de lys. This last one is very scarce, because the period of attribution was almost two years. Excellent ! Regards Bison

I agree with all what it is said above. Illustration for local Tunisian-made pieces (this one is from Mohammed Al Amin period 1942-1947): Even if it is totally hand-made and approximately painted, note that it not so rubbish... Consider the translucid rosette behind the cypher Regards Bison

Hi Hendrik and KVDR Sometimes the cypher on the Nichan Iftikhar provides some important vision trouble... as far as they can be engraved with much fantasy. But this is the charm of this kind of medal. I like them ! It looks like a Mohammed Al Habib cypher, but it could also be Mohammed Al Amin 1942-1947, may be, may be http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2009/post-2068-1236460723.gif. But I believe it is, because of the recent aspect of this medal and of the ribbon. Yours seems to be a local manufactured decoration. Sometimes, we can find a tunisian mark on the reverse which is a grape. Regards Bison

And don't forget the reverse, which is the most powerful : "Campaigns from 1792 to 1815. For his companions of glory, his last thoughts. Saint Helen, the 5th of May 1821" :ninja:

Hi Chris For your eyes only :beer:

The engraver was BARRE, who made some other well known campaign medals (Mexico, China, etc..). The maker was the Monnaie de Paris factory, which is still the official medal maker (but not exclusive) in France. His personal mark is an anchor, you can see just under the bust of Napol?on.

This box is mine, and the medal inside too, and the recipient was GIRARDOT... unfortunately this is the only information I have. His name is writen on the reverse of the box. Why whould they want to pay for reduced sizes? The reduced sizes were more elegant to be worn permanently on civilian dress... Happy to see you are interested in that issue. Best regards

The M?daille de Sainte-H?l?ne was delivered to the Veterans by the government and, (as far as I know!), the model was the same for everybody. They received their medal in a little white box : In which they found the famous medal. With it, was a green flyer, giving them the choice of one of the three different reduced models (two Francs to be paid in return ). This advertising paper proves that the Government sent an official medal to the vets, and if they would, a reduced one to be paid. (this last pic from http://zitocland.forumpro.fr/forum.htm ) In fact, other jewellers also offered to "improve" the prestigious medal in plating some gold or silver, and even in covering the Emperor's face in blue / black enamel... Do'nt forget that it was one of the first campaign medal in France and the recipients were numerous, therefore the market was large. Sometimes, one can find this medal in aluminum (!), which was considered as a precious metal in the middle-end of the XIX century. However,I have never seen a medal in solid gold or silver. I hope these details help... Best regards