Kriegsmarine Admiral

4 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Unrelated, but I was going through my pics in an effort to help out another member an thought these might be of interest to you, Kriegsmarine Admiral.

Unfortunately, no names unless otherwise indicated.

Sandro, thank you very much for this! You have some great photos in your collection!

It's unfortunate not all admirals on the photos are named. I will try and ID the ones I recognize. Do I have your permission to post these photos on other forums, in hopes someone will be able to help us ID them?

Please let me know.

Regards

P.S. Could you please repost this one (below) so the whole photo is visible?

1 hour ago, 1812 Overture said:

Wow! Great photo. This general also received the Romanian crown and Grand Cross order. I need a picture without a red circle! Thank you

Here you are.

On 22/10/2020 at 11:51, GdC26 said:

Sash looks like the GK des M-S Greiffenordens to me. Not an unusual award for Naval officers of flag rank. Pic is too blurry to make out the star, but it might be of the same order. The Oldenburg Hausorden GK sash would in my view look different in b/w. 

Hello Sandro. Today I was compiling the list of awards of Vizeadmiral Wilhelm Schack.

On his portrait photo we can see he was awarded the Honour Grand Cross of the Oldenburg House and Merit Order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig. See the sash, circled breast star and cross at the end of the sash.

In my opinion, Char. Vizeadmiral Hermann Alberts that we discussed above, is wearing the same sash and breast star as Schack. I believe that Alberts is then also wearing the Honour Grand Cross of the Oldenburg House and Merit Order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig and not the GK des M-S Greiffenordens like you suggested before. The sashes look exactly the same in black and white. Do you agree?

Regards

1 hour ago, GdC26 said:

I checked the 1914 and 1918 Ranglisten, but saw no match (he had the Russian St. Stanislaw 2nd class which had or could be awarded with star, but since the pic is late war/post WWI that seems unlikely.

If he had the Star of the St. Stanislaus Order, the Rangliste would say "RSt2mSt". Like you say, it's very unlikely (I would dare say even impossible) he was awarded the Star during WW1.

1 hour ago, GdC26 said:

Do your sources say whether he was awarded the star as well?

My source for the Hohenzollern Hausorden Komtur with swords is the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. You can also see it on the photo, top medal around the neck. There is no indication he also had the Star of this order, and I doubt that's the Star visible on the photo.

1 hour ago, GdC26 said:

And are you sure the pic is not a composite, with the orders painted in?

I am 100% sure it's a photo and not a composite. Sure, the medals mounted look a little odd, but I guess that was his personal preference. By the way, the photo was for sure taken after WW1, because you can see he mounted two un-official veteran organization's medals.

The 5th medal is the War Commemorative Medal 1914/1918 of the Kyffhäuser Union and the 6th medal is the Commemorative Medal of the Union of German Naval Veterans Associations.

The Norwegian Order of St. Olaf was usually awarded to German Admirals before the outbreak of WW1. I don't think that's the breast star Rogge is wearing. Other orders you mention are even more less likely.

I think we won't be able to determine what the breast star is without seeing the full photo of the star. Unfortunately...

Anyways, thank you to everyone for their help regarding this.

39 minutes ago, 1812 Overture said:

On October 10, 1898, Raidel was in China and received the third-class and third-class Ssangyong order issued by the Qing Dynasty. But I never saw him wear it. So I want to ask if you know this

Oh, you mean Raeder. Yes, he was awarded the Imperial Chinese Order of the Double Dragon 3rd Class, 2nd Grade on 10 October 1898. But I never saw him wear it. Either on the medal bar or ribbon bar. Sorry.

Once again, I kindly ask for help regarding the two colonial medals that are visible on the medal bar. The photos are not the best, but I hope they will help at least a little bit.

Here is some info about his career that might me useful in determining what the medals are:

- First Officer, Torpedo Training Ship "Blücher" (01 October 1896-30 September 1898)

- First Officer, Battleship "Wörth" (01 October 1898-30 September 1899)

- Torpedo Director, Imperial Shipyard Kiel (01 October 1899-27 September 1902)

- Commandant, Light Cruiser "Niobe" (28 September 1902-06 April 1903; 30 June 1903-30 September 1903)

- Journey Home from St. Thomas/Central America (01 October 1903-30 October 1903)

- Commandant, Light Cruiser "Gazelle" (31 October 1903-03 August 1904)

My guess for the second medal on the medal bar is: China-Denkmünze in Stahl (China Medal in Steel - for non-active participants)

Reason: During the Boxer Rebellion (2 November 1899 – 7 September 1901) he was the Torpedo Director at the Imperial Shipyard in Kiel and didn't actively participate. Also, the ribbon above the medal looks like the ribbon of the China Medal (yellow stripe in the middle and black stripes at the edges).

My guess for the third medal on the medal bar is: Kolonial-Denkmünze (Colonial Medal), no Clasps visible above it.

Reason: While he was the Commandant of the "Niobe", we know he was posted somewhere in Central America, because we can see he was returning to Germany from St. Thomas. It would appear that he didn't participate in the Venezuelan crisis of 1902–1903. The following info from Wikipedia: "The Navy initially planned on sending "Niobe" to reinforce the squadron participating in the naval blockade of Venezuela of 1902–1903, but the incident concluded before she could be sent. Instead, on 1 March, she joined the cruisers of I Scouting Group for her second trip to Norway." That's why he doesn't have the „Venezuela 1902/03“ Clasp above the Colonial Medal.

The second reason is the ribbon above this medal that seems to have vertical lines (like the Colonial Medal), and not horizontal lines like the Südwestafrika-Denkmünze (South West Africa Medal).

First medal on the medal bar is the Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz, the fourth is the Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 and the last one is the Portugiesischen Ritterorden von Avis.

Please tell me what you think.

For anyone interested, here is the list of his awards I compiled so far:

-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub (22. 01. 1911)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse mit dem Stern (21. 01. 1912)
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Ehrenoffizierskreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig
-Offizierskreuz des Portugiesischen Ritterordens von Avis
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden 2. Klasse mit dem Stern

Many thanks in advance for any help!

6 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

So, there is information showing that Marshal Raidel has been ordered by Ssangyong Baoxing in China, but he has never been seen wearing it?

Sorry, I don't understand your question. Perhaps the translation isn't correct?

2 hours ago, GdC26 said:

A contribution would be me identifying the order of the griffon for you, as I did yesterday, or you sharing the list you have complied, like Markus did. 

After I compile the lists of awards of all the Imperial (and other periods, for example Reichsmarine and pre-1871) admirals, I intend to share it. That's my ultimate goal. I did the same thing with Kriegsmarine Admirals. Over on the Axis History Forum I have a thread called "Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals" where I posted photos and lists of awards of every single Kriegsmarine Admiral. That was never done before (the lists of awards part I mean). Feel free to check it out: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341

That is the main reason why I'm asking for help with awards of Imperial admirals on this forum. I think this forum has a lot of people who can help me with that kind of stuff, and I was not wrong so far.

And when I'm finished I want to post the lists on this forum, so anyone interested will be able to look it up. It's just that it takes time and effort to compile those lists. Currently I'm on the letter "S" of the alphabet.

2 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Not entirely sure why you're upset

I am upset because you questioned my contribution to this forum, and honestly I feel offended. You implied I was not "gentlemanly" enough because I didn't thank Markus. I corrected my mistake. And this was the only time I didn't thank someone for helping me. I always do, because it means a lot to me when members of this or other forums help me.

I agree that we should move on. I don't want this "incident" to get in the way of future cooperation.

Regards

1 minute ago, Simius Rex said:

I don't know if you realize this, but we wouldn't even have a Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste if it weren't for Markus.  That's right... the person you are reluctant to thank because you "already have the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste" is the person who actually compiled and published the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. 

Also, I'm confused by the observation that you "contribute" by asking questions.  Going by that logic, I believe I can say that I contribute to meal preparation by eating the food. (My wife's going to be thrilled when I tell her that.)               

I didn't know that he compiled the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. I was given this list by another member of the forum. It's my bad then, and I apologize for my mistake.

My badge says I'm an active contributor on this forum. I don't care what other people think "active contribution" means. Sandro implied I only ask for help, while I give nothing in return. That's simply not true. Feel free to check my posting history, and you will see plenty of instances where I also helped and answered other people's questions. Regardless what you think, "asking questions" does indeed contribute to this forum. It opens new topics for discussion, and perhaps sparks the interest of other people. If we don't ask questions, then what's the point of having a forum like this?

I don't intend to quarrel further regarding this, and I won't be responding to any more of these kind of statements. If you can't help me with the question I originally asked on this thread, then please ignore it and move on, but don't attack me and my contribution on this forum. Otherwise, I will ask a moderator to lock this thread.

Regards

1 hour ago, 1812 Overture said:

I want to see his full body photo

Not possible I'm afraid. This is the only known photo of him that I took from the book "Deutschlands Admirale". It doesn't show the full body.

9 minutes ago, demir said:

No 3 looks like The Ottoman Order Of Talent awarded for “talent, science and skill”, or Life Saving Medal. Best wishes

 

Thank you Demir. Because he's a military person, I think it's more likely to be the Life Saving Medal.

1 - Order of Osmaniye 2nd Class 

2 - Order of the Medjidie 2nd Class 

3 - Is this an Ottoman Medal? Does anyone know what it is?

Thanks!

I agree, I should have thanked him. If you are reading this, thank you Markus. 

As you can see from my name, I am more of an expert on Kriegsmarine Admirals. And people here rarely have questions about Kriegsmarine Admirals. Don't you think I also contribute by asking questions? I personally do.

Regards

22 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

I think you have answered your own question, not? Most likely bronze if he was not an active participant.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Thanks, you are right I guess.

I think you meant "most likely steel" (not bronze). Bronze was awarded for active participation.

Thank you Sandro.

19 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

And thank you Markus ......

 

Sorry, but his information is from the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste that I already have. And it doesn't reveal anything about the question I asked.

6 hours ago, 91-old-inf-reg said:

Hello, 

it is clearly the China denkmuze as the 3 colors of the imperial German flag are present and the rim of the medal has what looks like a thick border, or wreath, which none of the other colonial medals had, 

regards, 

Dan

Thank you Dan!

I agree with you. Now regarding the class of the medal.

Since he wasn't actively involved in China during the Boxer Rebellion (he was at the time the Executive of the Weapons Department, Imperial Naval Office (11 November 1895-13 July 1904), I think the class would be Stahl (Steel) and not Bronze. Do you agree?

The steel medal was awarded to people contributing to the war effort at home and the sailors of the merchant fleet transporting the soldiers to China.

9 minutes ago, laurentius said:

An Ottoman award I believe, I'm terrible with the names though.

I doubt it's an Ottoman award. The tips of the Breast Star don't look like either the Medjidije or Osmaniye Order Breast Star.

Can anyone help me confirm if Vizeadmiral Leo Jacobson was awarded the Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Stern mit Schwertern on 01 April 1918?

Perhaps someone could check in the Militär-Wochenblatt or Marineverordnungsblatt?

Please...

Thank you

What is the Breast Star he is wearing above the Breast Star of the Kronen Orden 2. Klasse?

Could it be the Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstorden des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig? If yes, which class? Perhaps Großkreuz, because he is wearing a sash?

Again, nothing in the Rangliste.

Thanks

What is the Breast Star he is wearing below the Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 1. Klasse?

There is nothing in the Rangliste.

Thanks

Can someone help me with the 2nd to last medal (before the Centenarmedaille).

It's clearly one of the 3 colonial medals (based on the shape of the medal):

- Kolonial-Denkmünze

- China-Denkmünze

- Südwestafrika-Denkmünze

But which one? My guess is the Kolonial-Denkmünze (based on the ribbon). But I can't confirm it. Perhaps someone else can.

He served on board the Panzerfregatte "Friedrich Carl" (May 1880-September 1880) and the Artillerieschulschiff "Mars" (October 1882-May 1883). Perhaps this info can help in determining which colonial medal it is.

Thanks

Hello.

What are the two Ottoman awards circled red (around the neck and breast star)? What class are they? Are they with or without Swords?

Thanks!

Hello. Does anyone have a better quality version of this photo of Char. Konteradmiral Karl von Restorff?

Thanks!