Kriegsmarine Admiral

What is the last medal on his medal bar? The clasp above it also seems to be a part of the medal. The second to last medal should be the Ritterkreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Württembergischen Krone (WK3).

Between 1902 and 1906, Trummler was the Naval Attaché in Tokyo. Could this last medal be a Japanese medal of some sorts? Or is it a Jubilee/Coronation medal from some other country? For example Great Britain. Trummler was Commander of the British Royal Victorian Order (GV3).

Thanks!

2 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

This is the Italian Crown Order (Grand Officer level)

But I have a question. If EK2 was issued in 1914, then Germany and Italy are belligerents, can they still wear enemy orders?

Italy entered the war on 23 May 1915. Tapke could have been awarded the EK2 before that date, and he would still be allowed to wear the Italian Crown Order until 23 May 1915.

39 minutes ago, Utgardloki said:

I am pretty sure it is the Crown of Italy grand officers cross

Thank you!

9 minutes ago, Alex K said:

3rd China denkmunze, 4th centenary medal

The last (5th) medal is the Centenary Medal.

Please help me ID the 3rd and 4th medals on his medal bar.

My guesses:

3rd medal: Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer (although it is not listed for him in the 1904/05 and 1908/09 Deutscher Ordens-Almanach)

4th medal: China-Denkmünze, possibly in Stahl (for non-combatants) (he was in China between 1896 and 1898 as Commandant of the Protected Cruiser „Prinzeß Wilhelm“. This was before the outbreak of the Boxer Rebellion in November 1899, at which time he was the Commander of the II. Matrosen-Division)

Please tell me if you agree. Thanks!

What is the 2nd medal around the neck and the Breast Star? I believe they are the same order. 

To me it looks like the Orden der Krone von Italien, Großoffizierskreuz? Can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

Thank you guys for the confirmation!

Deutschritter, here are his promotion dates:

23.04.1878 Eintritt in die Marine als Kadett

14.06.1879 (P) Seekadett

17.01.1882 Unterleutnant zur See, Patentierung vorbehalten

16.11.1882 Patent als Unterleutnant zur See mit RDA. vom 17.12.1881 (O)

18.08.1885 Leutnant zur See

14.11.1892 (B) Kapitänleutnant

16.05.1899 Korvettenkapitän, Patentierung vorbehalten

16.07.1899 Patent als Korvettenkapitän mit RDA. vom 16.05.1899 (C)

27.01.1904 Fregattenkapitän

27.01.1905 (B) Kapitän zur See

27.01.1910 (A) Konteradmiral

15.11.1913 (A) Vizeadmiral

Does anyone know if Vizeadmiral Maximilian Graf von Spee was awarded the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class?

Thanks

10 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Good morning, Kriegsmarine Admiral, I have a question about Hugo's Großkreuz (IV.) des Königlich Spanischen Ordens für Verdienste zur See ... I read in the Deutscher Ordens-Almanach (1908), that it was the SpVzS2, that would make it II. Klasse. A bit low for an Admiral. Could you please tell me, where you read Großkreuz? Thanks!

It says it was the Großkreuz in the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste.

1 hour ago, Deutschritter said:

One last, small question for Kriegsmarine Admiral: If Schützler was retired "mit dem Charakter als Konteradmiral (Ing.)" 1919 (depending on when), was he then officially considered a Konteradmiral  a. D. of the Kaiserliche Marine or rather a Konteradmiral a. D. of the Vorläufige Reichsmarine?

He retired on 23 May 1918. But his last rank was Marineoberchefingnieur (equivalent to the rank of Kapitän zur See) (from 13 July 1916). On 23 August 1919 he was "Rang als Konteradmiral (Ing.) verliehen". It doesn't say it was a Charakter rank, but it has to be, since he was retired for over a year when he got the rank. 

He would most certainly be considered Konteradmiral  a. D. of the Kaiserliche Marine. In my opinion, all officers that got promoted to admiral ranks until 1 January 1921 (when the Reichsmarine was officialy established) are considered Kaiserliche Marine admirals.

1 hour ago, demir said:

Hello,

It looks like the Turkish War Medal. You also mentioned it in your medal list (last award).

Best wishes

Thank you Demir. Yes, I mentioned it because I saw it on the photo. I just wanted to be sure if it's really the Ottoman War Medal.

3 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

If you have an exact birth- and deathdate I would be thankful ...!

For Adolf Schützler or Oskar von Truppel?

Here is for both:

Adolf Schützler (03 August 1860 in Bonn – 13 January 1932 in Aachen)

Oskar von Truppel (17 May 1854 in Katzhütte - 20 August 1931 in Berlin-Frohnau)

1 hour ago, Deutschritter said:

maybe he served on a German ship under Kaiserlicher Ottomanischer command? I couldn't find him in the Rangliste 1916, so maybe he was officially by the "Osmanische Kriegsmarine"?!

For the duration of the war he was the Fleet Engineer with the Command of the High Seas Fleet, then the High Seas Forces (30 March 1914-02 April 1918). He retired on 23 May 1918.

1 hour ago, Deutschritter said:

Is the last medal a Hanseatenkreuz?

Yes, it's the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz.

Here is his list of awards:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden II. Klasse mit Schwertern (02. 03. 1918)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden III. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden IV. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden III. Klasse mit der Krone und Schwertern
-Offizierskreuz des Königlich Sächsischen Albrechts-Ordens mit Schwertern
-Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz I. Klasse
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond

1 hour ago, Deutschritter said:

Do you happen to know more about von Truppel?

Regarding Truppel, I will send you a PM.

Is this the Ottoman War Medal (Harp Madalyası) he is wearing?

Thanks

On 23/11/2020 at 04:51, 91-old-inf-reg said:

The last cross on the medal bar is the Anhalt Friedrich Kreuz II klasse

Thank you!

Do you agree with the rest of my ID's of the medals that have the "???" at the end?

I updated Hugo's list of awards (see above). The correct date for his Stern zum KO2 is 18 January 1901. The November date is for Oscar.

Here is the list of Oscar von Schuckmann's awards and a photo:

-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub (18. 01. 1901)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden II. Klasse mit dem Stern (09. 11. 1901)
-Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden III. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden III. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen
-Ehrengroßkomturkreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig
-Ehrenkomturkreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden II. Klasse mit Brillanten
-Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Königlich Norwegischen Ordens des heiligen Olaf

I guess he then wasn't awarded the Stern to his RAO2mE. And the two dates listed for his KO2mSt both refer to the KO2. But only one date can be correct.

I just found the PDF of the Deutscher Ordens-Almanach 1904/05 you used for Hugo von Schuckmann.

Here, Schröder also doesn't have the Stern to his RAO2mE.

2 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

As to Hugo being Vizeadmiral zur Disposition (probably before WWI?!), I found that in the "Neues Adels-Portefeuille 1200 bis 1945", Oscar is listed as Konteradmiral zur Disposition. Maybe we can find out, where Oscar was born? If it were also Viecheln we could be pretty sure.

I guess this is the website of the "Neues Adels-Portefeuille 1200 bis 1945"? http://home.foni.net/~adelsforschung2/portefeuille08.htm

In this case, zur Disposition doesn't mean they were active after they retired (during WW1 for example). It means "Vizeadmiral zur Disposition" was their last rank and position.

In both their cases zur Disposition means "retired", since they weren't active after that. For example, Hugo von Schuckmann was "zur Disposition gestellt unter Verleihung des Charakters als Vizeadmiral" on 14 December 1901. Yes, zur Disposition meant that he could be used as Offizier z.D. if needed, but in his case, he wasn't used after 14 December 1901.

Regarding Oscar von Schuckmann, he was born on 25 May 1851 in Anklam, Pommern and died on 07 March 1920 in Kiel-Kitzeberg. Since he and Hugo weren't born in the same city, I'm not so sure they were brothers after all.

32 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

Gentlemen, no KO1 according to "Deutscher Ordens-Almanach" (1904) for Vizeadmiral z. D. Hugo von Schuckmann:

Why is the RAO2mE listed without the Stern here (from 1904) if we agreed he must've received it in 1901?

1 hour ago, Deutschritter said:

Rangliste 1892 and 1893 he has the RAO2mE, no breaststar yet ... only for the Kronenorden (1893).

Thank you. From which dates are the 1892 and 1893 Rangliste?

I have a question very similar to the one I asked about the Roter Adler-Orden of Char. Vizeadmiral Hugo von Schuckmann. See here: https://gmic.co.uk/topic/77147-roter-adler-orden-of-char-vizeadmiral-hugo-von-schuckmann/

Vizeadmiral Wilhelm Schröder was awarded the RAO2mE on 08 August 1889. The Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste, just like in Schuckmann's case, lists the KO2mSt twice (see the photo below). I believe the first date (11 January 1892) is the date of him being awarded the Stern to the Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse.

The second date (17 January 1892) should then be the award date of the Stern to his RAO2mE. Schröder is not listed in the oldest Rangliste I have (1894), because he retired on 6 November 1893.

If anyone has the 1893 Rangliste, could you please look up Vizeadmiral Schröder and see if he was awarded the Stern to his RAO2mE.

Thanks!

On 24/11/2020 at 00:44, Deutschritter said:

He must have gotten the "Stern zum Roten Adlerorden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub" on 9 November 1901, because in the Rangliste 1901 (nach dem Stande vom 8. Mai 1901) he already has the RAO2mE. The "Gesamtliste" seems to have a mistake there.

Do you happen to have exact birth and death dates? Did he become Vizeadmiral zur Disposition in WWI, I think I read that somewhere. Thanks!

Do you know more about his (older?) brother Oscar?

 

Thank you very much for confirming that Schuckmann was awarded the RAO2mE!

He was born on 04 January 1848 in Viecheln, Mecklenburg. He died on 07 December 1931 in Berlin-Wilmersdorf.

To my knowledge, he didn't become Vizeadmiral zur Disposition in WWI. Where did you see that information?

If you are referring to Oscar von Schuckmann, he was born in 1851. That would make him his younger brother. But I don't know if they were brothers? How do you know that? Also, what more do you want to know about Oscar?

*EDITED Here is the list of Hugo von Schuckmann's awards:

-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub (18. 01. 1900)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden II. Klasse mit dem Stern (18. 01. 1901)
-Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden III. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden III. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande
-Komturkreuz des Königlich Bayerischen Militärverdienstordens
-Ehrengroßkomturkreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig
-Ehrenritterkreuz II. Klasse des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig
-Komturkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens
-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden II. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden I. Klasse
-Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Königlich Norwegischen Ordens des heiligen Olaf
-Kaiserlich Türkischer Medschidié-Orden IV. Klasse
-Offizierskreuz des Tunesischen Nischan-el-Iftikhar-Ordens
-Großkreuz des Königlich Spanischen Ordens für Verdienste zur See

I need help regarding his Roter Adler Orden 2. Klasse. On this photo provided by Sandro, we can see he is wearing the RAO2 around the neck, below the Kronen Orden 2. Klasse. The photo was taken sometime between 16 November 1898 (his promotion to Konteradmiral) and 14 December 1901 (his retirement). As far as I'm aware, he's wearing these two decorations wrong. RAO2 should be on the top and KO2 below it.

I'm having trouble confirming the exact Class of the RAO2. I know it's the 2. Klasse for sure. Schuckmann retired on 14 December 1901. I don't have the 1900 or 1901 Kaiserliche Marine Rangliste, so I can't confirm if he was awarded the RAO2, and which Class. In the 1899 Rangliste he still has just the Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone.

The Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste I looked at next seems to have an error. It lists "Pr. Kronen-O. 2. Kl., Stern z." twice, first on 18 January 1901 and second on 09 November 1901 (see the second photo below).

My conclusion is the following: he was indeed awarded the Stern to his KO2 on the first date (18 January 1901).

Regarding the second date (09 November 1901), I think that on this date he was awarded the Stern to his RAO2 mit Eichenlaub. This is where I need help. Can anyone find out if he was awarded the Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub before 09 November 1901? If he was, my assumption would be correct. As far as I know, he couldn't have been awarded just the RAO2 (without the Eichenlaub), because the Grand Cross, 1st and 2nd Class could be awarded with Eichenlaub, indicating prior receipt of the next lower class of the order. Since he had the Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone, it's pretty safe to assume his RAO2 (whenever it was awarded) was awarded with the Eichenlaub. And on 09 November 1901 (little more than a month before he was retired) he was then awarded the Stern to his RAO2mE.

Thanks for any help!

12 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

18.9.1915 mit dem Charakter als Vizeadmiral verabschiedet (I still do not exactly know why)

I found this: "He disagreed with some views of Grand Admiral Prince Heinrich of Prussia, specifically with regards to using submarine warfare. To his great surprise, he was asked into retirement by the Emperor on 18 September 1915. Funke suffered from depression and died aged 67 in 1932 in Berlin, where he had lived in retirement."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Funke

1 hour ago, 1812 Overture said:

Dear Mr. Karlo，A few days ago I saw a photo of the German navy that you posted to get the breast star order from Orange-Nassau  in the Netherlands. I didn’t save it. I can’t find that article. Can you? Send me again?

I'm not sure what photo you mean, but try and look here: https://gmic.co.uk/topic/77098-char-admiral-gustav-schmidt-medal-bar-id/

Char. Admiral Gustav Schmidt had the breast star of the Oranien-Nassau.

On 18/08/2019 at 18:19, Komtur said:

Two of them (v. Gontard and Mewes) are to be seen here:

 

Who are the two naval officers on this photo?