Kriegsmarine Admiral

I found this ribbon bar attributed to Konteradmiral Otto Philipp on Weitze.

Can anyone confirm it is indeed his ribbon bar? Some awards fit, but this looks to be a post-WW1 bar.

Here are my guesses:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse mit der Krone (the Crown is missing)

- ???

- ???

- ???

- China-Denkmünze in Bronze

- Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (the Swords are missing)

- Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897

Could the 3rd ribbon be the Prussian Order of the Crown 2nd Class with Swords? He had the Order of the Crown 2nd Class without Swords before WW1 (confirmed by the Rangliste).

Here is his list of awards I have from the Rangliste and Excel Gesamtliste:

-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern (03. 05. 1917)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse (21. 01. 1912)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 1. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-China-Denkmünze in Bronze mit Spange „Taku“
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse mit der Krone
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse des Königlich Dänischen Dannebrog-Ordens
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Griechischen Erlöserordens
-Kommandeur des Königlich Großbritannischen Victoria-Ordens
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Niederländischen Ordens von Oranien-Nassau
-k.u.k. Österreichischer Orden der Eisernen Krone 2. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden 2. Klasse
-Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

Thanks!

1 hour ago, webr55 said:

That cannot be Natzmer, because he is not wearing any neck cross. He would not have left off his RAO2X.

The KO2x could be hidden because of the angle he is facing. See how on the left photo his KO2x is partly hidden by his uniform. If you don't think it's Natzmer on the right photo, just compare the ears. They are identical.

1 hour ago, webr55 said:

Tricky, since he is not easily found, being a Turkish officer. Obviously, he is only wearing his wartime awards. If #2 and 3 are German, then they would probably have to be one-rank awards (like Braunschweig or Oldenburg), since if multi-rank, he would have got neck crosses. Except, if he chose to wear neck crosses on the bar (which sometimes happened). 

Thanks. He is actually a German officer in Turkish service.

I have two photos of Natzmer, one from the book "Deutschlands Admirale" and the other one is from the ceremony of the opening of the Naval Memorial in Laboe on 30 May 1936. I think there is no doubt they are the same person?

Anyway, I need help in identifying the medals on his medal bar. This would help me confirm the ID of him as Natzmer, and also match his known awards from the Rangliste and the seeoffiziere Gesamtliste.

His list of awards I have:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern am Zweimal Schwarz- und Dreimal Weiß-Gestreiften Bande (22. 01. 1918)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 1. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-China-Denkmünze in Bronze mit Spange „Taku“
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse mit Schwertern am Ringe
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande
-Ehrenkreuz 2. Klasse des Fürstlichen Hausordens von Hohenzollern
-Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden 4. Klasse mit der Krone
-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Belgischen Leopoldsordens mit Schwertern
-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Dänischen Dannebrog-Ordens
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden 3. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Türkischer Osmanje-Orden 4. Klasse
-Ehren-und Erinnerungskreuz des Marinekorps Flandern
-Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

Some notes:

- Oddly, the 1914 Rangliste lists both the KO4x and the KO4. Is that a mistake, or is it possible that the swords weren't added to his KO4 and instead he received a brand new medal?

- The 1914 Rangliste lists "BL4" for him. This would be the Belgian Order of Leopold, Knight's Cross. In the Rangliste it says that officers received this order only with Swords. Is this correct? Even foreigners?

- I have no proof for the Flanders Cross, since it was a non-official award. But I'm pretty sure he received it, because he was the Commander of the I. Naval-Brigade of the Naval Corps in Flanders in 1918.

The medal bar:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

- Ehrenkreuz 2. Klasse des Fürstlichen Hausordens von Hohenzollern ???

- Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande ???

- Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse mit Schwertern ???

- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife

- Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

- Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz

- China-Denkmünze in Bronze ???

- Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897

It's difficult to see if there are two or three medals after the EKII and before the RAO3S. Also, there seems to be a round medal between the DA and the Centenarmedaille. The ribbon fits with the China-Denkmünze I think. Also, I can't see the BMV4mKr mounted on his medal bar.

It would help if anyone could tell me which medals would Natzmer wear on his medal bar, and in which order...

Thanks!

Anyone?

I already posted this in the "Turkey" section asking for help in regards to his Turkish awards.

Now I need help with the 2nd and 3rd ribbons that are surely German.

His list of awards I have:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 1. Klasse mit Schwertern (16. 10. 1917)
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Stern mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern (16. 03. 1917)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse mit dem Stern (29. 08. 1910)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 1. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus
-Königlich Spanischer Orden für Verdienste zur See 3. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Türkischer Medschidié-Orden (Class unknown)
-Kaiserlich Türkische Goldene Imtiaz-Medaille mit Säbeln
-Kaiserlich Türkische Silberne Imtiaz-Medaille mit Säbeln
-Kaiserlich Türkische Goldene Liakat-Medaille mit Säbeln
-Kaiserlich Türkische Silberne Liakat-Medaille mit Säbeln
-Kaiserlich Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond
-k.u.k. Österreichisches Militär-Verdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration

The ribbon bar:

1: Iron Cross (1914) 2nd Class

2: something German with Swords ???

3: something German with Swords ???

4: Gold Imtiyaz with Swords

5: Gold Liyakat with Swords

6: Silver İmtiyaz with Swords

7: Silver Liyakat with Swords

8: Ottoman War Medal

9: Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration

23 minutes ago, JohanH said:

Photo from Jani Tiainens book abou finnish medals and orders. 

Thank you Johan! Are the last two medals the Finnish Silver Medal for Bravery and the Finnish Commemorative Medal of the "War of Liberation"?

10 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

I can't tell, but the device above the Kriegsdekoration might be a crown.

Thank you Dave!

And what about the badge below the EKI? Is that the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Schwarz?

Hello, please help me ID the awards on the ribbon bar of Vizeadmiral Andreas Michelsen. The photo was taken in 1919.

His list of awards I have from the 1914 and 1918 Rangliste and seeoffiziere Gesamtliste:

-Pour le Mérite am 31. 05. 1918 als Kommodore und Kapitän zur See und Befehlshaber der Unterseeboote
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern (02. 11. 1916)
-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Preußischen Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern (01. 08. 1916)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 1. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Kolonial-Denkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse mit der Krone
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Komturkreuz 2. Klasse des Königlich Sächsischen Albrechts-Ordens mit Schwertern
-Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden 3. Klasse mit der Krone und Schwertern
-Ritterkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 1. Klasse
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse
-Leutnant des Königlich Großbritannischen Victoria-Ordens (GV4)
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden 2. Klasse

Ribbon bar:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

- Ritterkreuz des Königlich Preußischen Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern

- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife

- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse mit der Krone

- Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 ???

- Südwestafrika-Denkmünze (does aynone know if Michelsen got the Bronze or Stahl version?)

- Kolonial-Denkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“

- Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz

- Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden 3. Klasse mit der Krone und Schwertern

- Ritterkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens

- Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse

- This looks like the k.u.k. Österreichisches Militär-Verdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration, but what is the device above the Kriegsdekoration ???

Also, notice the badge below the EKI. Is that the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Schwarz?

50 minutes ago, P.F. said:

I can assist with these, and would agree with your suggestions:

 

8: I think this is the Ottoman War Medal

9: Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross with War Decoration

Thank you Pierce!

What about the 2nd and 3rd ribbons? They are surely German. Any guesses?

19 minutes ago, demir said:

If he had 1 or 2 wouldn’t they show it

You mean we would see the Breast Star on other photos of him? I think you are right.

Can you comment on the ribbon bar? 1-9? And tell me if you agree with my ID?

1 hour ago, demir said:

1. I think on the ribbon bar from left 3. Gold Imtiyaz 4. Gold Liyakat 5. Silver İmtiyaz 6. Silver Liyakat. IMHO Rest not Turkish.

Here is a close-up of the ribbons from the first photo.

1: Iron Cross (1914) 2nd Class

2: something with Swords

3: something with Swords (not a Turkish medal like you said)

4: something Turkish with Swords (Gold Imtiyaz?)

5: something Turkish with Swords (Gold Liyakat?)

6: something Turkish with Swords (Silver İmtiyaz?)

7: something Turkish with Swords (Silver Liyakat?)

8: I think this is the Ottoman War Medal?

9: possibly the Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration

1 hour ago, demir said:

2. 1 st, 2 nd or 3rd class Mecidi order, Most probably 3rd Class. Otherwise there should have been a breast star for 1 and 2.

But how would you see the Breast Star on the bust? It only shows the head and neck.

On 28/06/2020 at 07:08, 1812 Overture said:

Dear collectors, I have always wanted to know the order and medals won by the last Governor of Qingdao. Can anyone tell me, in addition, it is best to have other photos of him. Thank you

Here is the full list of awards from the 1914 and 1918 Rangliste and the seeoffiziere Gesamtliste:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse (06. 06. 1912)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 1. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-China-Denkmünze in Bronze
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse des Herzoglich Braunschweigischen Ordens Heinrichs des Löwen
-Kaiserlich Chinesischer Orden vom Doppelten Drachen 2. Klasse, 1. Stufe
-Großkreuz des Chinesischen Ordens der Goldenen Ähre (Chia-Ho-Orden)
-Großkreuz des k.u.k. Österreichischen Franz-Joseph-Ordens
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden 3. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden 2. Klasse

Also some photos. The last photo was taken in 1928, I pressume shortly before he died on 25 August.

On 18/09/2019 at 14:14, Nicolas7507 said:

It came to me identified and I can confirm every award for Meurer except the OK2 and the MMV. 

Can you please tell me how did you confirm the China-Denkmünze for Meurer? And what class is it? Bronze or Stahl?

10 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

Where can I find the spreadsheet referenced above entitled "Seeoffiziere" ??  Is it somewhere here in the forum? Thank you. Simi. 

See here: 

On 18/09/2019 at 14:14, Nicolas7507 said:

It came to me identified and I can confirm every award for Meurer except the OK2 and the MMV.

Hello Nicolas. How did you confirm the China-Denkmünze for Meurer? And what class is it? Bronze or Stahl?

On 18/09/2019 at 22:06, Daniel Krause said:

His Mecklenburg cross is confirmed. It is listed in the Schwerin archive.

Daniel, you said the MMV is confirmed in the Schwerin archive. Was Meurer awarded only the 2nd Class or also the 1st Class?

On 18/09/2019 at 20:42, P.F. said:

Is that the OFA1 he is wearing here with the EK1? It's hard to tell.

I agree with you Pierce, it's definately the OFA1.

Here is a little better quality photo on which you can see the OFA1 in the bottom left corner.

Thank you Lukasz. Yes, the photo you posted shows him with the Grand Officer of the Order of the Crown of Italy (around the neck and breast star).

On my photo, I'm sure the breast star is the Spanish Order of Naval Merit.

Hello, can anyone help me with the Ottoman Awards of Vizeadmiral Johannes Merten? He served in Turkey between August 1914 and November 1918 as Commander of the Fortifications of the Dardanelles and he also held the Ottoman rank of General of the Artillery.

I hope that someone has a list of his Ottoman awards?

On these photos I found we can see he had the Ottoman War Medal and what seems to be the Imtiyaz and Liakat medals. I think he also had the Osmaniye and Medjidie orders.

The ribbon bar on the first photo suggests he had 5 or 6 Ottoman awards. I'm not sure if the last ribbon is an Ottoman award. The second photo shows his bust. The award around the neck is the Order of the Medjidie (possibly with Swords?). However, I don't know the Class.

I pointed Merten with the red arrow on some photos.

Thanks!

Hello, I have this photo of Paul Fanger, here as Vizeadmiral.

I was told the award around the neck could be the Commander's Cross of the Order of Merit of the Kingdom of Hungary.

Can anyone confirm this? I would also like to know the exact class of the award.

The breast star he is wearing next to the War Merit Cross 1st Class with Swords seems to be the Spanish Order of Naval Merit.

Thanks!

Hello,

does anyone have a photo of Char. Konteradmiral Friedrich Marwede (1862-1918)? There is no photo of him in the Volume II. of the "Deutschlands Admirale", page 439.

Thanks!

Back in November 2019, the emedals site sold this Miniature Decoration Chain. They said it belonged to Char. Konteradmiral Otto Mandt. 

I am having trouble confirming if it really belonged to him.

The following medals are visible on the chain:

- Iron Cross (1914) 2nd Class

- Oldenburg Friedrich-August Cross 2nd Class

- Order of the Red Eagle 4th Class with Crown

- China Medal in Bronze

- Southwest Africa Medal in Steel

- Prussian Long Service Cross

- Prussian Centenary Medal

Mandt retired in 1904, but was reactivated during WW1 and served between August 1914 and June 1916 as Director and Head of the Naval Supply Center Swinemünde. He retired on 30 June 1916 as Char. Konteradmiral.

Based on the 1904 Rangliste and the excel table Gesamtliste, I have the following list of his decorations:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse (14. 07. 1904)
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Kolonial-Denkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Eichenlaub
-Komturkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens
-Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse des Großherzoglich Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenachischen Hausordens der Wachsamkeit oder vom Weißen Falken
-Offizierskreuz des Kaiserlichen Japanischen Ordens von der Aufgehenden Sonne
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Niederländischen Ordens von Oranien-Nassau
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden II. Klasse
-Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse des Königlich Norwegischen Ordens des heiligen Olaf

As you can see from this list, he didn't have the Crown on his Order of the Red Eagle 4th Class. This is the main reason why I don't think the Minature Chain belonged to him. Also, there are no indications in his bio that would make him eligible for either the China Medal or the Southwest Africa Medal. During the Boxer Rebellion he served in the Imperial Shipyard in Wilhelmshaven and during 1904 he served as the Commandant of the Training Ship „Stosch“ and Commander of the Ships Young Division.

Here is the link to the emedals site: https://www.emedals.com/germany-imperial-a-miniature-decoration-chain-attributed-to-rear-admiral-otto-mandt

Mandt's bio: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Mandt

Any help in determining if this Chain belonged to Mandt would be much appreciated!

3 hours ago, laurentius said:

Had the picture been taken in 1922 or before it could be an unofficial award. Perhaps something Freikorps/Kriegerverein related?

He was promoted to Char. Konteradmiral (Ing.) on 27 March 1922. So the photo was certainly taken on or after that date.

Anyone?

Please help me ID the awards on his medal bar. They got me a little confused.

Here are his entries from the 1914, 1918 and 1922 Rangliste:

Based on this, I made a list of his awards:

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 1. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 1. Klasse
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse

Now for the medal bar:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse

- Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 3. Klasse

- This medal looks too dark to be the Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz. The ribbon also doesn't fit. Is it the Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse then ??? If so, why didn't the mount the Dienstauszeichnungskreuz?

- Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897

- ??? What medal is this? Perhaps something foreign?

The other possibility is that the 4th medal is the Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz and the last one is the Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse. I don't know if the OFA2 was supposed to go before or after the Centenarmedaille on the medal bar?

Does anyone have Captain George Albert's (a.k.a. army historian) e-mail? I am trying to contact him.

Thanks