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Kriegsmarine Admiral

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Posts posted by Kriegsmarine Admiral

  1. On 08/02/2013 at 22:03, Daniel Krause said:

    Hello Wayne,

    I try so. Now 75 in the list...

    Sorry for all the abbreviations :-)






    Bastian, Max KL Amazone, AStO Finnl, 38 Adm KVKRKX, HOH3X, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, WHDA1, FinnFK2X, ÖM3K, SW2b 24

    Wedding, Carl KzS, VA 2.MarD RAO2EXXRs2, RAO4X, KO2, DA, China Tientsin, BH, HH, LüH, OK1, OK2a, GM3, SMK1, DtEDM, Flandern, Kyffh, UKDM

    Hello, can you tell me what is your source for Bastian's SW2b? It is not listed in the Ranglisten I own (1914, 1916, 1918 or any other Reichsmarine Ranglisten).

    Also, can someone please write the full names of Wedding's awards?

    Many thanks!

  2. This is a thread I started a while ago on the Axis history forum, but had no luck there.

    My goal is to identify the Admirals on these photos.
    This is the ceremony of Erich Raeder being promoted to Großadmiral on board the Scharnhorst in Wilhelmshaven on 1 April 1939. The date is important to narrow down the search. Also the "Tirpitz" was launched the same day.
    I hope you can help. Open the photos in a new tab to zoom them in a bit. They are possibly placed in seniority order. Feel free to correct any mistakes and comment below if you have any ideas.

    1 Admiral Conrad Albrecht (promoted the same day to Generaladmiral)
    2 ???
    3 Hafenbaudirektor Karl Tiburtius
    4 ???
    5 ???
    6 Vizeadmiral Friedrich Götting
    7 ??? (face barely visible)
    8 ???
    9 Possibly Marineoberbaudirektor Prof.Dipl.Ing. Hermann Burkhardt ??? (he is ID'd on a different photo from the same date, the launching of the Tirpitz)
    10 Vizeadmiral Hans-Herbert Stobwasser ??? (I don't think he is Stobwasser)
    a ??? (again he is too short so the face isn't visible)
    b Vizeadmiral Günther Guse
    c ???
    d Vizeadmiral Hermann von Fischel
    e ???
    f Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Hans Fechter
    g Vizeadmiral Hermann Densch
    h ???
    i Vizeadmiral Wilhelm Marschall
    j Charakter als Vizeadmiral Ernst Wolf
    k Charakter als Vizeadmiral Kurt Aßmann
    Admiral between k and l ??? (barely visible)
    l Konteradmiral Heinrich Ancker ??? (I am not sure about this one either)
    m Konteradmiral Witold Rother
    n Konteradmiral Raul Mewis
    o Konteradmiral Otto von Schrader ??? (pretty sure it isn't von Schrader)
    p Konteradmiral Werner Grassmann
    q Konteradmiral Günther Lütjens
    r Konteradmiral Otto Schniewind
    s Konteradmiral Conrad Patzig
    t Konteradmiral Otto Hormel ??? (again, not sure about this one)
    u Vizeadmiral Willy von Nordeck (he can be seen in detail on the last photo of this post)

    To help ID the rest of the Admirals I compiled a list of all the Admirals that held either the Konteradmiral, Vizeadmiral, Admiral or Generaladmiral rank (or Charakter of those ranks) as of 01 April 1939 (i.e. the date these photos were taken) and were active at that time in the Kriegsmarine. I also wrote in the brackets the ones already identified on the photo:

    Alfred Saalwächter, Admiral
    Conrad Albrecht (ID number "1"), Admiral
    Hermann Boehm, Admiral
    Karl Witzell, Admiral
    Otto Schniewind (ID "r"), Konteradmiral
    Otto Schultze (he was placed at the disposal of the Kriegsmarine, not in active service), Admiral
    Rolf Carls, Admiral
    Walter Warzecha, Konteradmiral
    Wilhelm Marschall (ID "i"), Vizeadmiral
    Conrad Patzig (ID "s"), Konteradmiral
    Erich Zieger, Konteradmiral (Ing.)
    Eugen Lindau, Vizeadmiral
    Günther Guse (ID "b"), Vizeadmiral
    Günther Lütjens (ID "q"), Konteradmiral
    Hans Fechter (ID "f"), Vizeadmiral (Ing.)
    Hermann Densch (ID "g"), Vizeadmiral

    Hermann Mootz, Konteradmiral
    Hermann von Fischel (ID "d"), Vizeadmiral
    Hubert Schmundt, Konteradmiral
    Karlgeorg Schuster, Vizeadmiral
    Max Bastian, Admiral
    Otto Hormel (ID "t", I am not sure about this one being Hormel, any ideas?), Konteradmiral
    Otto von Schrader (ID "o", I am not sure about this one being von Schrader, any ideas?), Konteradmiral

    Paul Fanger, Konteradmiral
    Raul Mewis (ID "n"), Konteradmiral
    Werner Fuchs, Konteradmiral
    Wilhelm Canaris, Vizeadmiral
    Willy von Nordeck (ID "u", Admiral right of "t"), Vizeadmiral
    Adalbert Schüssler, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Ernst Wolf (ID "j"), Charakter als Vizeadmiral
    Friedrich Götting (ID "6"), Vizeadmiral

    Georg Reimer, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Hans Stohwasser, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Hans-Herbert Stobwasser (ID "10", I am not sure about this one being Stobwasser, any ideas?), Vizeadmiral
    Heinrich Ancker (ID "l", I am not sure about this one being Ancker, any ideas?), Konteradmiral

    Karl Thäter, Konteradmiral Ing.
    Kurt Aßmann (ID "k"), Charakter als Vizeadmiral
    Robert Witthoeft-Emden, Vizeadmiral
    Siegfried Maßmann, Charakter als Vizeadmiral
    Thilo von Seebach, Konteradmiral
    Walter Matthiae, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Werner Bettenhäuser, Konteradmiral Ing.
    Werner Grassmann (ID "p"), Konteradmiral
    Witold Rother (ID "m"), Konteradmiral

    Erich Mahrholz, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Hans-Hermann Graf von Schweinitz und Krain Freiherr von Kauder, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Hasso von Bredow, Charakter als Konteradmiral
    Kurt Ramien, Konteradmiral
    Peter Christian Donner, Charakter als Konteradmiral


    Many thanks!


    image (1).jpg

    Admiral Raeder holding the baton given to him by Hitler on his appointment as Grand Admiral aboard the Scharnhorst%252C probably in Wilhelmshaven%252C4 1939.jpg

    Schlachtschiffs Tirpitz%252C1 4 1939.jpg

    image (2).jpg




    my interpretation from the ribbon bar:

    - 1914 EK 2. Klasse
    - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer 
    - Königl. Preuss. Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse 
    - Kolonialdenkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“ 
    - ???
    - Königl. Preuss. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz 
    - Treue Dienst Ehrenzeichen 1. Stufe 40 Jahre
    - Königl. Preuss. Kaiser Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille 1797-1897 
    Mecidiye Orden with swords
    - Liakat Medaille with swords
    - Imtiaz Medaille with swords
    - Kaiserl. Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond 
    - Kaiserl. Türkischer Osmanje-Orden 4. Klasse 

    Kind regards

    Andreas, can you please answer on my two questions above? I would greatly appreciate it.

    Many thanks!


    No. As I said, the shape does not match. I still think I was right: This is one of the unofficial 1920s pinback crosses, see above. 

    Yes, I saw your post, and I do agree with you. It could be one of the unofficial awards.

    But you didn't say, is Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1. Klasse out of the question or also possible? The shape looks similar to me.

    When I was trying to ID Bartenbach's medal bar, on another forum a memeber said one of the medals is the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse. We can't confirm it with the Rangliste because Bartenbach retired in 1920 and wasn't active again until 1934.

    So if he recieved the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse it is also quite possible he recieved the 1.Klasse.


    The 6th medal was identified as the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse.

    After Oldenburg Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse (partly covered by it) and before Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz.




    Dear fellow collectors

    To me the award looked a bit like the Steckkreuz für Treue Dienste from Schaumburg-lippe, the cross 1st class. The arms seem less wide than those of the Iron cross, and we see a small emblem in the center of the cross, which could very well be the capital 'A' on the cross. I will attach some pictures.

    Kind regards, Laurentius



    Thank you for your answers guys. What about the Fürstl. Lippisches Kriegsehrenkreuz für Heldenmütige Tat?

    The thing is, on the photo of Bartenbach I can't see the Laurel wreath (Lorbeerkranz) that is on the Lippe award?




    my interpretation from the ribbon bar:

    - 1914 EK 2. Klasse
    - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer 
    - Königl. Preuss. Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse 
    - Kolonialdenkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“ 
    - ???
    - Königl. Preuss. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz 
    - Treue Dienst Ehrenzeichen 1. Stufe 40 Jahre
    - Königl. Preuss. Kaiser Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille 1797-1897 
    Mecidiye Orden with swords
    - Liakat Medaille with swords
    - Imtiaz Medaille with swords
    - Kaiserl. Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond 
    - Kaiserl. Türkischer Osmanje-Orden 4. Klasse 

    Kind regards

    Thank you very much! The unknown ribbon you left out is the Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) 2. Klasse ohne Schwertern I'm pretty sure. How sure are you about the 3 ribbons you identified (can I put these awards in my awards list for Lorey)? And also do you think the Liakat and Imtiaz medals are more likely to be the Silver versions instead of Gold (the Gold versions were pretty hard to get)?

  7. Can you help me identify the awards of Hermann Lorey from his ribbon bar?

    This is his list of awards I managed to find:

    Königl. Preuss. Kaiser Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille 1797-1897
    Kolonialdenkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“
    Königl. Preuss. Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse
    1914 EK 2. Klasse
    1914 EK 1. Klasse
    Kaiserl. Türkischer Osmanje-Orden 4. Klasse
    Kaiserl. Türkischer Medschidiè-Orden 4. Klasse mit Säbeln
    Kaiserl. Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond
    Königl. Preuss. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
    Marineverwundetenabzeichen in Schwarz (1918)
    Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer
    Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) 2. Klasse ohne Schwertern 

    Now his ribbon bar:

    - 1914 EK 2. Klasse
    - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer ???
    - Königl. Preuss. Roter Adler-Orden 4. Klasse ???
    - Kolonialdenkmünze mit Spange „Venezuela 1902/03“ ???
    - Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) 2. Klasse ohne Schwertern ???
    - Königl. Preuss. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz ???
    - Treue Dienst Ehrenzeichen 1. Stufe 40 Jahre ???
    - Königl. Preuss. Kaiser Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille 1797-1897 ???
    - ???
    - ???
    - ???
    - Kaiserl. Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond ???
    - Kaiserl. Türkischer Osmanje-Orden 4. Klasse ???


  8. 5 hours ago, Bayern said:

    For a while i tought in Guido von Usedom but he died in 1925. Usedom also was awarded the turkish war medal , the other German Admiral present in Turkey was Vizeadmiral Johannes Merten but he died in 1926 curiously he was recognized by the Ottoman Empire as General der Artillerie . sugerence : Go to : Kategorie Vizeadmiral ( Kaiserliche Marine ) Wikipedia with some luck you can find something

    Thank you, I have the 3 volumes of Deutschlands Admirale with photos inside so I might find something there. The thing is, an Admiral could have been awarded the Gallipoli Star even if he didn't serve in Turkey. Otherwise it would be easy to find a Vizeadmiral that served in Turkey during WW1.

  9. Does anyone know who this Vizeadmiral might be. Previously I thought he was Wilhelm Souchon but looking at his sleeve insignia, he is clearly a Vizeadmiral and Souchon was an Admiral (promoted in 1918 and this photo was taken in 1936). And also he looks much taller and fatter than Souchon (see 2nd and 3rd photo of Souchon below for comparison).

    He also wears the Gallipoli Star, so it might help with the identification.


    Unknown Vizeadmiral.png



  10. On 09. 03. 2018. at 01:37, Dave Danner said:

    Schlegel was not a combat officer. He would likely have received a Military Merit Order on the ribbon of the Bravery Order, not the Bravery Order itself, such as the example below. There is no way to know what class, absent a better picture or a trip to the archives in Sofia. 



    On 09. 03. 2018. at 04:07, 922F said:

    By statute [c.f. Pavlov 2002, p. 130 & others] beginning in 1912, the MBO ribbon could accompany a MMO in place of the usual MMO yellow/white/black ribbon only when the MMO rewarded actual war [taken to mean battlefield or general staff level] merit and then only in the 4th, 5th, & 6th class.   Sixth class usually went to enlisted men, 5th class to senior NCOs & junior officers, and 4th class to mid-level officers.  MBO ribbons were not used with third & higher MMO classes.  Institution of the so-called 'war wreath' in 1916 did not affect this ribbon protocol. 

    I suppose the odd foreign recipient could have ignored the statute & unofficially replaced a regulation MMO yellow/white/black ribbon with a MBO ribbon--like your image of a third class, post 20 above.   

    If the ribbon under discussion in fact represents a MMO for war merit, it most likely would indicate a 4th, 5th, or 6th class award which might not be suitable for someone of Schlegel's rank/title.

    As to MBO applicability, Bulgaria instituted a specific sub-class of 4th class, first [pin back] & second [breast badge] division, specifically for medical, religious, and musical personnel by 1915 statute amendment [c.f.Pavlov 2002, p  11].  These insignia do not have swords between the cross arms.  Some authors report this distinction appeared for second Balkan war issue MBOs though no authoritative documentation has yet appeared demonstrating this point to my understanding.

    I posited MBO 4th, first division due to lack of pertinent rank list information plus Schlegel's position & personal rank/title.  That said, award anomalies do occur so -- lacking definite facts -- we may never know what award the ribbon indicates.   

    By the way, Bulgarian Orthodox clergy received the majority of 'sword less' MBOs for religious personnel but a few Roman Catholics and Lutherans [& other Protestants?] as well as one or two Jewish & Muslim clerics supposedly earned this honor.   The true number of 'sword less' MBO awards remains unpublished but surely is relatively small. 


    Here is a full photo of Schlegel's medal bar with all medals visible.

    Can we ID this medal bar too?

    Is the last medal Bulgarian or some other?


  11. Thank you guys!

    One question for Dave, how can you tell the difference between the 4th and 3rd Class of the Crown Order?

    And the last few medals are very blurry on his medal bar. Did you perhaps already know all of his decorations or were you able to ID them now from his ribbon/medal bar? If so, props to you!

    And if the last ribbon is the Bulgarian Military Bravery Order, what class does the crown represent?

    And am I correct in saying that around the neck he is wearing the Merit Cross 1st Class for Services to the Red Cross with War Decoration (Austria-Hungary)?

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