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Kriegsmarine Admiral

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Posts posted by Kriegsmarine Admiral

  1. 7 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

    I am not sure if Navy officers received the 1905 jubilee medal. It was the Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army, and the Bavarian regulations published in 1905 do not mention the Navy at all. That said, the 1911 regulations do not mention the Navy either, though they do mention the Schutztruppe. I also have not been able to find any authorizing regulations in the Marine-Verordnungsblatt

    The criteria for awards of Landesorden to Navy personnel are somewhat muddy. Sometimes it seems you had to be a native of the state, but sometimes awards were made to personnel serving on ships "associated" with the state, like the SMS Bayern, SMS München, SMS Nürnberg, etc. for Bavaria. Since jubilee medals are not usually included in rank lists, they are even harder to track unless the regulations are clear. 

    Thank you Dave. But what about Hirth's case? What is the last medal on his medal bar then?

    And do you know if he was a Bavarian native?

  2. 5 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:


    Liut Pod’s 1905 medal and his 70th anniversary medal are the same on the front, who can stand it!

    I'm sorry, I don't understand. Who is Liut Pod? If you are referring to the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille (1905) and Bayerische Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille (1911) I know they look the same. Still, the one Hirth has can be determined by looking at his carrer, he joined the Navy in 1903. That would mean he would be awarded the 1905 medal, if he was a Bavarian native. But I don't know if he was.

    So you agree it's the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille in the last place on his medal bar?

  3. I just found this nice photo of Hirth.

    We can see his medal bar, 4 medals:

    - Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

    - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

    - Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz 

    - ???

    Does anyone recognize the last medal? Pierce told me it could be the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille given it's dimensions. This could easily be confirmed if we knew that Hirth was a Bavarian native. However, he was born in Shanghai, China and I couldn't find any more info regarding his life. He did die in München, so that might be a clue.

    If anyone agrees it is the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille, is it the one from 1905 or the Königlich Bayerische Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille from 1911? Hirth entered service in the Navy in 1903, so I think it could be the 1905 Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille?


    Waldemar Hirth (1).jpg

  4. On 08/02/2019 at 16:57, 922F said:

    Judging mostly by the badge [lowest one, hangs almost beside star] this looks like a civil division set.   Take into consideration my poor eyesight combined with the image size & wash-out, however.   

    Another photo of Begić!

    1 Grand Cross of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir with Star and Swords 

    2 ???

    3 ???

    4 Grand Cross of the Romanian Order of the Crown ???

    5 ???


  5. Thanks Dave! Is there a possibility the Rangliste wasn't wrong about the WF2aX, but that he simply didn't mount the breast star on this particular photo?

    And you agree the second Hanseatenkreuz is the one from Bremen?

    You think it is the China-Denkmünze in Stahl based on the photo? Couldn't it be the Bronze version?

  6. Here is the list of all the possible candidates, all were either Admirale or Char. Admirale and alive on 12 June 1938 when the photo was taken:

    Gustav Bachmann (1860-1943)
    Carl von Coerper (1854-1942)
    Ernst Fritze (1850-1941)
    Gerhard Gerdes (1861-1941)
    Hermann Jacobsen (1859-1943)
    Reinhard Koch (1861-1939)
    Günther von Krosigk (1860-1938)
    Wilhelm von Lans (1861-1947)
    Georg Alexander von Müller (1854-1940)
    Max Rollmann (1857-1942)
    Ehrhardt Schmidt (1863-1946)
    Friedrich Schultz (1865-1945)
    Wilhelm Souchon (1864-1946)

    I am pretty sure it isn't Günther von Krosigk because he died 4 days after (16 June 1938) the photo above was taken.

    We are looking for an Admiral that had a moustache (and beard?), so I think that rules out Georg Alexander von Müller.

    It's also definitely not Erhardt Schmidt or Wilhelm Souchon. Schmidt was stocky and it doesn't resemble Souchon.

    Von Usedom died in 1925, not him.

  7. On 22/11/2017 at 11:22, webr55 said:

    It looks like the silver medal, yes. The one second to last on this bar, which belongs to a forum member (I think): 


    I found this better photo of Ditten. The medal bar is visible nicely. 

    Can we now confirm 100% the last two medals are Erinnerungsmedaille des "Finnischen Freiheitskrieges" 1918 mit Spange and Finnische Tapferkeitsmedaille in Silber?


  8. 28 minutes ago, Antonio Prieto said:

    Yes, I believe that the #1 on the first photo and the breast star on the second photo are the Spanish Order of Naval Merit 2nd Class, white divisionm type 1931-1938

    I can't see the crown in the first picture

    In the second photo I think I see the mural crown, which would correspond to the concession in 1932. This crown would cease to be used in Spain from 1938, moving it through another open royal also known as imperial, which in turn would be used until 1977

    Attached the type of 1931-1938


    Ok, thank you. To be clear, the classes of the 1931-1938 type were: Grand Cross (4th Class), 3rd Class, 2nd Class, 1st Class and Silver Cross? Correct? So the 2nd Class had the Silver Breast Star like on your photo above.

    Do you have any ideas about #3 on the first photo? Is it possible it's the Spanish Order of Military Merit? We can see from his ribbon bar he had it.

  9. On the first photo, Number 2 is the Breast Star  of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir 1st Class with Oak Leaves.

    What is your opinion:

    On the class of Number 1?

    And what is the Breast Star Number 3?

    What is the class of the Breast Star on the second photo of Lietzmann I posted?

  10. There is no date, but we know that Lietzmann was the Standing Naval-Attaché for Spain from 24 March 1936 until November 1936 (so he was the Naval-Attaché for a short period of time before the Civil War broke out in July).

    You theory is very plausible, but I don't understand why Franco would award Lietzmann with the same class of the award (Grand Cross) if he already received it from the Royal Family.

    To me the #1 Breast Star from the first photo still looks smaller than the Grand Cross breast star and in my opinion it is the 3rd Class of the Spanish Naval Order.

    It wouldn't make sense #3 is the Order of Military Merit because it looks like the Grand Cross breast star, so the #1 he is wearing would be the only Spanish Order of Naval Merit he is wearing, and like I said above, to me it looks like #1 is the 3rd Class and not the Grand Cross (4th Class).

  11. I agree, but look at this other photo of Lietzmann below. The Breast Star is clearly the Grand Cross of the Spanish Order of Naval Merit in my opinion. It has the wider and bigger points then the #1 on the photo above (which is supposed to be the 3rd Class of the Spanish Order of Naval Merit, and not the Grand Cross given it's smaller size, compare the points of the star).

    And the size of #3 Breast Star (and the points) is identical to the Breast Star on this photo below.

    Joachim Lietzmann (4).jpg

  12. On 23/01/2018 at 12:25, JapanX said:

    As far as I remember he was awarded with 3rd class

    As for the Kleindekoration in the form of the sun - this is unofficial add-on.

    Hello JapanX, thanks for your reply. Do you have any source for this claim (that Lietzmann was awarded the 3rd class)?

    I am still trying to confirm if he was awarded the 3rd (Commander) or 2nd (Grand Officer) Class. Lots of people suggested these 2 classes, one person even said it is the 4th class. I want to confirm the exact class. Is it possible to confirm the exact class just from the ribbon bar?

    Many thanks

  13. Hello,

    Lietzmann can be seen wearing 3 Breast Stars on the photo. The one below the Iron Cross 1st Class (marked with #2) is the Breast Star of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir 1st Class with Star and Oak Leaves.
    The one right of the Iron Cross 1st Class (marked with #1) is the Spanish Order of Naval Merit (possibly the 3rd class that had a smaller breast star than the 4th class (Grand Cross)). Is this correct?
    The Breast Star on his right side of the chest (marked with #3) is unknown. I think it could also be the Spanish Order of Naval Merit, but this time the 4th class (Grand Cross) that had a bigger Breast Star than the 3rd Class. Can anyone confirm this? Or is it a different award?
    The curious thing is why would he wear both classes of the same award (Spanish Order of Naval Merit) and not just the highest class, i.e. the Grand Cross?

    Lietzmann's ribbon bar also suggests he was awarded the Spanish Order of Military Merit, but the exact class is unknown. Could one of the Breast Stars be that award?

    Lietzmann, Joachim - Vizeadmiral King Zvonimir Crown2.jpg

  14. On 03/03/2019 at 21:22, Gordon Craig said:


    Yes I do.  It was Lot 631 sold on 5 December, 2018.  It is an unattributed medal bar.  I was able to obtain a list of all of the staff at the German Embassy in London at the time of the coronation but no one on the list seemed to fit this bar.  In an article in the OMSA Journal Vol. 34 March 1983 page 12 it says the following "In May 1937 Admiral Raeder appointed Admiral Schultze the Navy's special Representative to the coronation of King George VI of England".  Admiral Schultze probably had a staff with him as well but I have not been able to find out who was on his staff for the coronation.  The German Foreign office directed me to a series of books that might list who attended George the VIth coronation as part of the German contingent but I do not have any means of accessing those books at this time.  I didn't bid on this bar because I had never come across a foreign bar with a British coronation medal on it before.  Your thread is of real interest to me as you have this great list of foreign medals bars that include British coronation medals.  I can not post a picture of this bar to this thread as DNW doesn't let me download pictures to my PC.




    Do you know if Admiral Otto Schultze was awarded the George VI Coronation Medal?

    By the way, here is Konteradmiral Erwin Waßner's medal bar. I believe today it resides in a museum in Den Haag in the Netherlands (where he died).

    This photo also confirms the last medal on his medal bar on the black and white photo is indeed the 1935 King George V Silver Jubilee Medal like I assumed.


  15. 21 minutes ago, Antonio Prieto said:

    For this Order, the denominations vary according to the years
    1936—1970                   1970-1977
    Grand Cross                  Grand Cross
    3rd class cross             1st class cross
    2nd class cross            2nd class cross
    1st class cross             3rd class cross
    Silver cross                   4th class cross
    For this periods the crosses of 2nd and 3rd class have the same size, approximately 65-70 mm
    The 2nd class wear the silver bottom, arms, rectangles, crown, castles and lions in silver.
    The 3rd Class (after 1st) carry the gold background, arms, rectangles and gold crown; Castles and lions in silver.

    Grand Cross is the sash badge plus the 3rd class (or 1st class) plaque

    So the Grand Cross, 3rd Class and 2nd Class all had the Breast Stars (1936-1970 period)?

  16. Thank you guys. I thought it could be the 3rd Class because the Breast Star seems smaller than the Breast Star of the Grand Cross Class. But I guess it's the Grand Cross because of the sash?

    To my knowledge, the Grand Cross had the Golden Breast Star, the 3rd Class also a Golden Breast Star (but smaller size than the Grand Cross) and the 2nd Class had the Silver Breast Star.

    Or did I understand it wrong?

    The link Antonio posted shows that only the Grand Cross and the 3rd Class had the Breast Stars. What about the 2nd Class?

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