laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

I am rejoiced to have finally acquired a saxon order of Albert 1st class with swords. It's a lovely piece manufactered by Scharffenberg from Dresden. It has hallmarks on three of the arms (S, Scharffenberg and Dresden). It's good company for my other order of Albert, a cross 2nd class with swords. Both pieces were bestowed during WW1.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Chris

After pondering for quite a while about this subject I came to the conclusion that the third option is the most logical. This medalbar is most certainly not a frack ( no reversed pin, no reversed ribbons, and most importantly, the gallantry awards would be at the end) and I also doubt that some vereins medal was removed to make place for this Schwarzburg cross. There is a nice FEK on the bar with an ample amount of space, I would dare to say that this bar was most certainly made during the third reich, long after the time of the Weimar republic and all it's carnavalsorders.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Chris

Every award could be worn in the buttonhole, it was a matter of personal preference. If the recipient was fond of his Schwarzburg award he could have worn it in the buttonhole, perhaps he even wore it in combination with an iron cross ribbon and a MVO ribbon.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Drdwarf13

He was commander of the Kurassier-regiment No. 3 from 18. april 1901 till 17. july 1902. He came from the Mecklenburgian/Dutch noble family of Boddien, whose members fought for the Mecklenburgian, Prussian and Dutch army. Hope this helps.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Johhny R

I think the collectors here would agree that you bought yourself a lovely piece of history

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

Although the crownorder was given out untill 1916, I highly doubt that this piece was indeed given out for wartime merit, rather I think, this would be a piece from the German colonial era, where it was much more common for this award to be given out. This second type was given out between 1869 and 1916. I cannot however, tell you whether this piece is authentic or not.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

Could it be that this bar belonged to someone who was a mere NCO/EM during the war? perhaps a BMVK2xkr and BMVK2x with a pre-war BMVK3? The Austrian war ribbon was for both NCO/EM and officers awards, the swedish order of the sword might be a version for NCO/EM also. This would explain why we can't find him in the rank lists

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Paul C

The 9th ribbon is the Bavarian MVO4 without swords, which was only given out untill 1914. If you didn't have it in 1914, you would never be able to get it anymore due to the dissolvation of the Bavarian kingdom. That is the reason it has to appear in the 1914 ranklist.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

I am happy that this thread has been revived, as it is in my opinion a most interesting one. Regarding the picture supplied by 1812, it shows miklós horty, regent of the kingdom of Hungary with the military merit cross 3rd class with a miniature, however, this is not a miniature for the cross 1st class like mine, but rather a miniature for the cross 2nd class which Horty received. I think that Horty's collar is blocking out the part with the enameled ribbon, as seen in the picture posted here below.

Kind regards, laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

I can personally recommend Bovomed, they helped me in a very good and professional manner when I had my father's medal mounted there, and he went the extra mile to find a buttonhole award of his rare (for the Netherlands) Polish cross of merit.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

Today I received the award, pictures will be added below, it is a true little beauty and it seems to be real gold, except for the ring around the medaillon. I would like to thank 1812 for supplying further reference material, personally I think that mine looks alike to the second picture send by 1812. The ring has 2 little identical markings, are there any collectors who can add on that?

Kind regards, Laurentius

P.S. The cross measures 51 X 51 mm, I added an iron cross for size reference

Dear fellow collectors

I had a stroke of luck last saturday and I was able to buy this lovely order of the crown for a good price. I am generally informed about the order but I did have one question about the ring which I hope one of the collectors here can answer. My commander's cross has a small ring through which the main ring is placed, the ribbon was worn through this main ring. Other examples of the order show only 1 ring. I'll add some pictures for visualisation. Firstly, my new piece.

We can clearly see two rings, a smaller one and a bigger one, and here we have one with just one ring

Is the difference in the ring maybe a difference in type or is the difference a difference in class, for example one could be a commander and the other one a grandcommander?

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors

Since I have a lot of spare time on my hands (holiday started a while ago) I made a small start on who could be the possible owner of this ribbonbar. I found two brothers from the line of Hohenzollern-Sigmarungen whom I suspect of possibly being the owner of the ribbonbar. These two brothers are:
* Prinz Wilhelm von Hohenzollern-Sigmarungen

* Prinz Karl Anton von Hohenzollern-Sigmarungen

Although both brothers held the rank of general in the prussian army (thus entitling them to a prussian servicecross and a centenary-medal) I think that Prinz Karl anton has a bigger chance of being the owner of this ribbonbar. He served as a leuitenant-general in WW1 (which would also entitle him to an EK2). I have a picture of him wearing a medalbar with the SWF, centenary and a bunch of foreign awards. In this picture he is also wearing the red eagle order and we can see the top of the Hohenzollern Princely honour cross.

All the medals that come after the centenary-medal are foreign, we can see a japanese order for example which he would not wear during the war, since Japan was not on Germany's side. This would explain why a lot of these medals are missing from the ribbonbar. Furthermore we see the grandcross of the red eagle order, however, this is a peace-time award which is most likely absent from this ribbonbar because it is a ribbonbar with orders given out for bravery (swords) and 2 awards for service. In this picture we can see him wear the cross 1.st class of the Saxon white falcon order, of which he may have received a higher grade during the war for bravery, which would explain the miniature of the grandcross with swords on his ribbonbar (kleindekoration). Any further comments are ideas might be helpfull, since this is only a small start of the puzzle.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear John

It's a nice original double-row ribbonbar made between 1936 and 1938. If I'm not mistaken it belonged to Admiral Otto von Schrader, who served in the ottoman empire during WW1, which explains his three ottoman awards.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear John

Despite the rare order of the white elephant I don't think that this ribbonbar, which had a medalbar attached to it, would be attributable. It's not 'special' enough for an identification. I'll add a picture of the medalbar.

Kind regards, laurentius

Dear David M

Yes, that would be correct.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Chuck

There are no marks on any of the BRea, this is just a box from a jeweler who most likely made the single medalbar. These kinds of boxes are not particulary rare, so the price of 188 euros is not justified in my opinion. It says on the box that the seller/maker of the box specializes in awards.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear alex

The medal after the BMVO4x is a Hessian medal for bravery, OEK 884

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear David M

No, it is not wrong, it's a completly different medal, although the confussion can be understood since their names are so similar. The general in the picture is wearing the 1.st type Officerscross of the House-order of Oranje-Nassau. The order you refer to is the order of Oranje-Nassau. The difference in these orders is the institution that gives them away. The house-order is given out by the royal family, whilst the order is given out by the state, and although this order has a crown the royal family does not have a say in who is awarded. The order of Oranje-Nassau has not changed, whilst the House-order has.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Alex K

As ixhs said it looked like a dutch medal so I went on a small internetsearch and I think that I've found the medal. It's the officerscross of the Dutch house-order of Oranje-Nassau, I'll add a picture for you.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear GODISHIGH

I'm having doubts about this bar, it is clearly a prussian bar (prussian service award and a centenary-medal) yet there are no prussian awards on this bar like the RAO or the KO. One could say that these awards weren't worn on a ribbonbar but I would think there would be miniatures of these orders on a ribbonbar such as this one. I'm also a bit worried about the miniatures, but if I recall correctly Claudio has a ribbonbar with miniatures of the same kind which we could use for reference in this case. I'm not saying that it is a bad bar, I'm only saying that I have my doubts. If it turns out to be genuine it would indeed be a nice addition to a collection.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Feldjaeger.1

Van Wielik is known for taking their time, I think that if you call them you might have a better chance of a fast response.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Simon Gornowicz

Most unfortenatly this is a fake, the swastika looks terrible, the core is bubbly and the date looks like it was painted on. Despite this the frame looks good, this would lead me to expect that this is a latvian fake, Schinkle fakes known to be made in Latvia. They crack open an original EK1 1914, remove the original core, place in the empty space a fake core made by the fakers and they close it up again. I regret to say that most likely a fine EK1 1914 has been misused and been disfigured for profit.This is my explanation for the difference in quality of the core and the frame. Since EK's are not my top collecting priority at the moment I would like to ask a collector who focuses on EK's to come in and give his opinion.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Feldjaeger.1

Yes, it would indeed be possible for you to buy a MWO 4 class. I would feel the need to inform you that you will get a newly made piece so the quality will sadly be lesser then those of a MWO awarded before WW1 for example. I do not know the price, but I would think it lies around 250 euros. The firm Van Wielik in the Hague has a website which you can visit, I'll add a link for you (of the english page, I doubt you speak dutch)

Kind regards, Laurentius

https://www.vanwielik.com/en.html

Dear Herman

In the book 'Het heeft hare majesteit behaagd' (ISBN 90-5911-169-9) published in 2004 there is an interview with the owner of the medalsupplier van Wielik who said this about buying awards : 'Iedereen die bij de firma Van Wielik aan de Haagse Kneuterdijk binnenstapt kan alle mogelijke onderscheidingen aanschaffen zolang er maar betaald word. '' Nee, wij vragen niet naar legitimatie of een oorkonde of iemand werkelijk koninklijk onderscheiden is. Dat is onze taak niet'' '. This translates to : 'Everyone who enters at the firm Van Wielik at the Kneuterdijk in the Hague can buy every possible award, as long as he or she pays. No, we don't ask for legitimation or an document or whether someone is indeed royally honoured. That is not our duty.' 

This book, albeit in Dutch gives great information about the dutch awards. Sadly it was published in 2004 due to which it might not be up-to-date with some awards.

Kind regards, Laurentius

On 07/08/2010 at 14:18, Herman said:

Hello Edmund,

 

Unfortunately there is no company officially reproducing the Orange Nassau medals. The Order of Orange Nassau, as well as other Dutch official orders, are invested by the crown and upon death of the recipient must be returned to the Chancellery of Dutch orders. If desired the family of the deceased can buy the medal. This is not cheap. The higher the grade, the higher the price.

 

About 60 to 70 % of the medals are returned. The remaining percentage is bought by the family, forgotten to be returned or simply went with the deceased in his coffin as his or her wishes were. A certain percentage of these medals reach the open market. What is also sold here are the extra medals bought by the recipients. They bought them in a few shops allowed by the government to sell them. One can only buy such a medal upon showing your official medal certificate. Even if you want to buy a spare campaign medal you must show your award certificate.

 

Fortunately there is ebay and the Dutch marketsite Marktplaats (www.marktplaats.nl). At marktplaats in the directory 'militaria' everyday a few Dutch orders are for sale. They don't come cheap, especially the scarce ones, but in the end you have an original medal.

 

In your case a Knight in the Order of Orange Nassau with the swords comes around EUR 200,-. The swords make it more expensive as this represents the military division of the order. Without the swords (the civil division) is more common.

 

Hope my answer has some value.

 

regards

Herman