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Posts posted by laurentius
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4 minutes ago, pinpon590 said:
Doesn't zuzüglich mean 'to add' which would bring the number to 560 awards between 1884 and 1918? This number would mean 12,41 awards per year for Mecklenburg-Schwerin (423/36) and 9,78 awards per year for Mecklenburg-Strelitz (137/14). This seems logical, given that Mecklenburg-Strelitz was a tad smaller than Mecklenburg-Schwerin. A number of 560 seems more logical given their frequency of appearing on the market but is far off from other sources (also to be found on this forum). I wonder what the reason is for these different numbers?
Is there anyone who could eloborate on the 'nachverliehungen' as far as 1941?
Kind regards, Laurentius
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That would mean we now have three different numbers, ranging wildly between 423 and 1672 (a factor of four!). I must say that 423 seems low, given the frequency with which these pieces appear on the market. They aren't common, but certainly not as rare as the number 423 would suggest. Are the rolls from Mecklenburg perhaps incomplete?
On the other hand an argument could be made for such a low number given the fact that the two Mecklenburg grandduchies were largely agricultural and some of the least developed areas of imperial Germany. An abscence of artists, industrialist and a larger upper-middle class would explain why so few of them would have been awarded.
Does Nimmergut give a differentiation between awards to native Mecklenburgers and others ( I know of atleast 13 Dutch recipients and an Austrian colonel)?
Kind regards, Laurentius
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Hello Dave,
Thank you for your reply. If i read your message correctly this would mean that conveying a message of unity was the primary reason with the economic situation as a secondary thought?
Do you know why they ceased producing pieces with the gold letters (G,E,B, standing for Georg, Ernst (I and II) and Bernhard)?
Kind regards, Laurentius
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Dear fellow collectors,
Whilst researching the Saxe-Ernistine House Order I wondered what the reason was for the combined institution of a House Order across several Thuringian duchies (being Saxe-Altenburg, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and Saxe-Meinungen and Hildburghausen)? The name suggests, and this is also written in some sources, that it is a clear reference to their common ancestor Ernest I of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (nicknamed 'the pious'). I wonder if there might also be an underlying, unmentioned, economic reason for using the same decoration. Surely this would allow for decorations to be made (somewhat) in bulk allowing for better prices at the jewellers? Was this done purely out of respect for Ernest the Pious or was there indeed an economic incentive?
Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius
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Dear fellow collectors,
I was able to purchase this unmarked Greifenorden Ritterkreuz (although clearly a Rose production). When doing my research I stumbled upon two different numbers for the total amount of awarded crosses. One quotation was roughly 1000, the other was the far more precise 1672. Does anyone know why these differ and which one (if any) is correct? I wonder if the number 1000 accounts for the Ritterkreuze, whilst the number 1672 might be the total amount of awards (knights, commanders, grandcommanders etc.)
Thanks in advance and kind regards, Laurentius
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Perhaps in preparation of the Olympics? I couldn't find any more information on him, he could have worked anywhere in Germany. I might contact the German police, maybe they know something.
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11 hours ago, JohanH said:
March 2nd 1923.
That is early. His certificate of award says 15-06-1923 whilst the note in the documents of the Dutch chancellary of orders has it written down on 25-01-1923. Do you know why this might be?
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Dear fellow collectors,
I was recently able to purchase the Commandeurskruis (commander's cross) of the Order of Orange-Nassau awarded to the Dutch mayor Gerard Abraham Willem ter Pelkwijk. I was aware at the moment of purchase that this piece had belonged to a large group containing amongst others five different European orders together with six Dutch orders, two medals, miniatures, books and other documents. It came from the former collection of Frans Riemersma. This grouping was sold on 13 januari 2022. After the auction it was split up and sold separately. I want to know whether anyone is aware where some of the pieces have ended. Attached you will find a picture of the piece now in my collection (recognisable by the red velvet in the crown), a picture of the grouping at auction and a picture of Ter Pelkwijk himself.
Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurens Stroek
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On 29/08/2023 at 18:09, JohanH said:
At the same day as Meixner got his award there was several germans who got the same order. See my list below.
Thank you for your help, I might investigate a bit further.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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1 hour ago, JohanH said:
Heinrich Meixner got the Order of Vasa on May 2nd 1972.
Thank you for this information. Does it say why he got it? Seems a bit odd that a German police commissioner should receive such an award.
1 hour ago, JohanH said:He was the 1422nd person of a total of 1471 to get that order.
That is before the Swedish Orders went dormant in 1975 right?
Kind regards, Laurentius
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Dear fellow collectors,
Since a few days I have a Wasa-Order 2nd class in my possession which belonged to a certain H. Meixner. He worked as a Kriminalhauptkommissar with the German police. I wonder if anyone could help me find the date of the award and any possible pictures of him? I've tried google, but alas it redirected me to more famous members of the Meixner family.
Any help would be appreciated.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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Dear fellow collectors,
I wonder if there is a list of Danish recipients who received the Dutch Order of Orange-Nassau between it's foundation in 1894 and 1940? I'm especially looking for recipients of the Officierskruis ( Officer's cross). All help would be appreciated.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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On 26/03/2023 at 23:21, JohanH said:
There is not a von Ilsemann in my list of German recipients of the Liberty Cross.
It's the Bulgarian order of Military Merit. It's red enameled and has a tendency to reflect. This is why it appears that the middle of the arms have a different colour which might lead some to conclude a Finnish rather than a Bulgarian decoration. The last two are both Bulgarian in my opinion.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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Dear fellow collectors,
When we discuss orders with the crown fixed directly to the cross what kind of time period are we looking at? Is there any information regarding the change to the 'reversed V'?
Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius
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19 hours ago, dedehansen said:
I think that it is a painting made by Eduard Magnus
I'd like to think that too, the value would be much higher than the price I payed. I doubt it sadly. The painting is of fine quality (hence the reason I bought it) but it's not quite up to Magnus' standard. It seemed to me more likely to be a portrait of him, especially given that he was mentioned in a 1844 article of the Staatsanzeiger in the same (but somewhat unreadable) paragraph as recipients of the RAO3schl.
We have established with Andreas' help that he had the Order of st. Michael. There must surely be more?
Kind regards, Laurentius
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No one to help? No one with knowledge?
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Thank you Andreas,
The reason I asked is because I bought this painting for my collection. It shows a man, I think around 50-55 years old with a lovely miniature chain. The painting has a small plaque inscribed with 'Ed. Magnus 1842'. These five decorations, of which three have been identified seem to me as honours which could have been bestowed on a painter. Hence my question whether he had received the RAO3schl. It could be a self-portrait, it could be a painting by Magnus of someone else or it could be a painting not made by Magnus but put in a frame which belonged to a painting by Magnus. Frameswapping is not uncommon, especially with the finer frames we see in the Biedermeier period.
I am still looking for the decorations bestowed upon Magnus, we now know he has the Order of St. Michael, which is not shown in the painting.
Regardless of who he is I am also trying to figure out his decorations. These are my guesses so far:
- Prussia: Red Eagle Order 3. class with schleife
- unknown, a medal, probably Prussian
- unknown, a cross with swords, silvery colour with blue centre
- Russia: Order of St. Stanislaus
- Russia: Order of St. Wladimir
It seems odd to me that the Order of St. Stanislaus should take precedent, as I thought that the Order of St. Wladimir was higher. Maybe an indication for which class he received? I usually refrain from chains so my knowledge in this field generally comes from their 'big brothers'.
I doubt that it is a self-portrait since I didn't read anything about Magnus spending time in the military. If the little plaque is correct this man may also be too old to be Magnus.
Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius
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Dear Andreas,
Thank you for your help. If I read the document right Magnus became a knight on the Order of St. Michael in 1858? Very interesting. I didn't know about this bavarian connection.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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Dear fellow collectors,
I am currently conducting research on the painter Eduard Magnus. I have reason to assume he was awarded the Prussian order of the red eagle third class with schleife (RAO3schl) somewhere during the 1840's. I have scanned the Preußische Staatsanzeiger but the results where inconclusive. He was mentioned in a 1844 article regarding the RAO but it didn't clearly state that he had gotten it.
I would also appreciate any information on other decorations received by Eduard Magnus. It is not unlikely that someone who received the RAO3schl had other decorations. All help is appreciated.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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8 hours ago, Alan said:
My thought is that this combination doesn‘t have anything unusual or rare about it. Hopefully I‘m wrong about that, maybe there is a pic with it in wear somewhere.
I'm glad to say you are wrong, because this bar is a rare little bird. When it comes to Lippe there were two states: Lippe-Detmold and Schaumburg-Lippe. Due to a succession crisis in the 1890's which required the 'guiding' hand of Emperor Wilhelm II there was still some animosity at the start of WW1. This is the reason why cross-Lippe awardings and recipients with decorations from both states are rare.
I can't guarantee an identification, but I believe it is worth a try. Won't be many people with this combo and you could cross of those with additional decorations that do not show up on the bar.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:
Good that this topic has been revived. Does anyone know what actually remains on display at Huis Doorn these days? I saw a video of the collection back in the '80's which was quite astonishing.
I went there last november, only the medals of Empress Auguste Victoria were on display (not to downplay these marvellous pieces ofcourse). Nothing of the emporer, apart from five uniforms. All other items were stored somewhere in a 'safe' location.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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On 18/10/2021 at 15:53, filfoster said:
Is it the case that medal bars with detachable medals were only worn by enlisted men, not officers?
Common misconception amongst non-imperial collectors but not true. The medalbar with detachable medals was often an economic solution rather than a statement of rank.
Kind regards, Laurentius
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8 hours ago, 91-old-inf-reg said:
Generalmajor Ferdinand von Stockhausen (5. Mai 1861 - 14. December 1915)
If he died in 1915 he could not have gotten the 'Vor dem Feinde' clasp since it was established in 1918.
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Rising from the ashes or going to the stars: Mecklenburg Orders
in Germany: Imperial: The Orders, Decorations and Medals of The Imperial German States
Posted
i came across a piece written by Eric Ludvigsen for the Orders and Medals Society of America. Although his list is incomplete he gives 344 Ritterkreuze between 1884 and 1896. Of these 180 were given to Germans (people from Mecklenburg counted together with the other German states) and 164 to foreigners (110 Russians, 1 dutchman, 33 french etc.). If Nimmergut is correct that would mean that Mecklenburg-Schwerin only awarded 79 more between 1896 and 1918 which seems most unlikely (given developments within Mecklenburg and Germany as a whole). Interesting is that there have only been four Dutch awards until 1896.
If Ludvigsen is correct we can probably do away with the number that Nimmergut puts up. This means that either the number 1000 or 1672 could still be true.