BlackcowboyBS

well it's hard to tell just from this photo, but I wouldn't decline it from what I see, so it could be good. I have seen similar.

yes, because if it is a modern ribbon, it would also tell us, that not only the cross is a fake but the ribbon also. 

would be interesting to see the ribbon

On 04/01/2023 at 18:22, VtwinVince said:

Clearly a cast copy from these images.

yepp doesn't look right, not worth the money! 

If there is no regiment where you may find some awardee lists or old newspapers where at the beginning of the war names were printed it is nearly impossible to prove it. As far as I know there is no list with all awardees of the ic2 of ww1.

nice little bar and good conclusions! 

Interessting, I haven't found him in my list eiter, but at least I can tell, that the number indicates that this guy became party member around august 1926. 

Could Nr. 3 be something that we call in German a Kleindecoration, so a small decoration of a grand cross in the size of a knight cross? I doubt that SM Wilhelm II. is wearing a knight cross. 

1 hour ago, JayBuck said:

Daniel Krause - that is outstanding. Many thanks. This brings me another step closer to proving that this group may be correct. 

Next question is - what is is  "Kriegszahlmeister Feldkriegskasse Etappenkommando 20"?

He was responcible for payment to the soldiers in the field and everything else what the troops needed besides weapons and ammunition. This was not handled by the Kriegszahlmeister. The translation would be purser or paymaster for a military unit. Etappenkommando 20 means he was responcible for the area where the command 20 of the military back area resided. 

Well sorry I couldn't help you with a photo, but just checked the award list of HdL orders, he never got an order from Brunswick from HdL, he might got a war merit cross from Brunswick, but I don't have the whole list of the awardees, so can't tell you. 

Maybe this little information might helps you a bit.

Good question, I personally think that the prices won't go down within the next 10 - 15 years. It all depends on the economy, if collectors will lose their jobs and need money, then they will bring their stuff to the market. But even this won't lead to a decrease of prices of orders 'n medals. If the old collectors will give up their collection or their heirs do, then we will see some good stuff being available. So times for small collectors will stay being tough 'n demanding.

Me neither, all I see is the same like GreyC

interesting, so  Thank you for it.

But I need to except the following statement from you: 

 the real meaning was not to wear two wehrmachts long service awards like here

 this was a misuse of the regulations.

The shown medal bar is correct, the regulations states: After the award of the higher class, a service award of the lower class is carried on, namely: third together with the fourth class, second together with the fourth and the first together with the third class. (see Doehle, Awards of the great German Empire, 1945)

I would go along with your further statements. 

some guy from the navy would be my guess.

I have to agree with VtwinVince, there is much fakery around these sword orders. But I can't say anything about your piece, so I am interessted to listen to the professional prussian collectors. 

On 24/01/2006 at 07:58, Chris Boonzaier said:

I ask because I have or saw (cannot remember, have to look) a wound badge doc with a small line printed at the bottom saying "In case of a higher award this badge must be returned"

 

I found it very unusual.

Any new insights on this one? I have to agree to Stogieman, that I have never heard of it!

Why do you assume Prussian? Every active soldier in 1897 and veterans and many more were the recipients of the centenard medal. So my guess would be someone from Baden not Prussia. 

19 hours ago, drspeck said:

These are currently on ebay

 

 

 

 

Well this one would be a real nice find and a sensation. the golden wmc of the duchy of brunswick was never awarded, but maybe this faker knows more than me! 

You may find something here for 1813: https://www.lwl.org/aufbruch-in-die-moderne/LWL/Kultur/Aufbruch/popups/politik/nation/abgrenzung_deutsch/eisernes_kreuz/index_popup1_html.html

https://kulturstiftung.org/zeitstrahl/die-stiftung-des-eisernen-kreuzes-und-der-aufruf-des-preussischen-koenigs-an-mein-volk

https://ordensmuseum.de/Ordensstatuten/preusen/das-eiserne-kreuz/

and for 1914 here: https://www.bmvg.de/resource/blob/5225564/c3e447a6d4b0cde152ea85d253a87d0e/download-erklaerstueck-zmsbw-eisernes-kreuz-data.pdf

You might want to look here: https://digi.bib.uni-mannheim.de/periodika/reichsanzeiger/ausgaben/1914/5/183

 or here: https://digi.bib.uni-mannheim.de/periodika/reichsanzeiger/ausgaben/1914/5/182

You can find the text from 1914 in this book, I am sure there must be somewhere out in the net as well: https://www.armeemuseum.de/images/publikationen/EK-Infoflyer.pdf

The recipient will be named in my article as well as the provenance. Any other thoughts or comments on this piece? 

Gentlemen,

just to inform you on my newest project! I am reserching this Pour le Merité from end of the 18th century. It comes from the era of King Friedrich Wilhelm II. so awarded between 1786 to 1797. I know the name of the original recipient, he could also be found in the books of Gustaf Lehmann. It is a pity, that only his name and date of award is written in it, so I need to find other sources to learn more, why this PlM was awarded! 

Even if this blue enameled beauty looks very different from the ones that Previtera shows in his books on the PlM from that time period I am pretty convinced, that this one also is from this time period and want to prove it, when I am done with my research. 

Any comments from your side are welcome, if you want to. 

PS: this is just a little sidetrip, so it won't mess with my work on the book of the orders and medals of the Kingdom of Hannover! I promise ?

well it will take some time for them to answer. Orders and medals are not a hot topic for them I am afraid. 

To me the medal looks okay, but there are pretty good fakes around on the market. As ArHo claimed, neither ribbon, clip nor suspension ring are original from award period, but renewed. 

What I can tell you about that bataillon Lüneburg is the following:

Established late in 1813 with headquarter in Lüneburg, consisted of 4 companies all together 624 men strong. It fought brave in the battle of Quatre Bras against french cuirassiers and reached Neuilly close to Paris on 7th of july 1815 as member of the occupying forces. Send back to Lüneburg 1816 and reached it 6th of february 1816. 

Hi Simius,

your cross is a very fine piece of art. Thanks for showing it! 

On 12/09/2022 at 21:10, Simius Rex said:

If this is supposed to be a miniature of the Ludwigsorden, the craftsman who made it didn't even get the colors right.  The enamel border of the crossarms is supposed to be red, not white.  Plus, the crown is missing.

 

Collectors don't really talk in terms of "original" miniatures because they were generally made for retired soldiers and civilians to wear on civilian attire well after the award period.  Companies like Sedlatzek were producing very lovely imperial-period miniatures for WW1 & WW2 vets and civilians all the way into the 1960s. 

 

What collectors DO talk about is the quality of workmanship and materials.  Miniatures were made with varying levels of care and detail since they weren't regulated or scrutinized by the various orders chancelleries.  Some featured great attention to detail and wonderful enamelwork, and some didn't.

 

One thing to remember about miniatures... people didn't walk up to a veteran or a civilian wearing a frock chain and examine it with a magnifying glass.  Often, it was more important that his awards were represented on the chain than it was for the miniatures to be superb works of art.

 

True words Simius,

that's the reason I often walk away on minatures. Hard to tell when produced and by whom. 

7 hours ago, paul wood said:

From a phaleristic point of view of the Orders of British India have now ceased to exist, as she was the last living recipient of the Order of the Crown of India; and unless there is a 100+ year old St Paul's choir boy lstill living she was probably the last living recipient of the 1935 Jubilee and possibly the 1937 Coronation medal, certainly the last recipient of the George V and George VI royal  family jewelled decoration.

 

Paul

Re black Cowboy, Louis XIV was only 4 when he became king, EIIr was 25

Paul, interesting facts, indeed! Thanks for them. Coming back to Louis, but formally he was king, so he sat longer on his throne than H.R.M ER II. 

PS: I really hoped that she was able to break his record, but I guess Covid and the aftermath of it have cost H.R.M. two years of her life.