LuckySlevin

I am very sorry to put my 10 cents, but the order of the decorations is not enough to dismiss this bar. Below are some photos from this forum: 

Yes exactly, sorry if it was not clear. I am speaking about the damaged top of the coat of arms. So it is indeed damaged and not a different version unfortunately . 

Hi Gentlemen, 

I would be very grateful to know your opinion on the following. 

Currently there is an auction on ebay of a bar with a civil merit order 2 class which looks great. The only one thing which is bothering me is the coat of arms. 

The order has a R mark for Roesner. All the orders made by this jeweller had a small cross on top. On this one it is missing. Below I show few examples of the coat of arms from Roesner: 

All the examples which I found from maker R have the cross on top of coat of arms. 

The other maker S does not have the cross on top and the coat of arms has slightly different design (will post below). 

Does anyone has a Roesner example with a missing cross on coat of arms or the one from ebay just lost it ? 

Thank you, 

Lucky

Here is the coat of arms from maker S: 

The main difference (which I spot) is the design of coat of arms and the different type of letters. 

Thank you all for your very valuable comments !

Just wanted to add that looking at few ordenschnale from kunker with the Oldenburg Honour Crosses, they all are very close to the one posted by BlackcowboyBS. 

Also, looking at this Red Eagle Order Medal, https://tompress.shop/en/produkt/prussia-roter-adler-orden-medaille-medal-of-the-red-eagle-order-2nd-type-silver-2/

one can clearly see the poor details of the medal from the bar. 

Hi Andreas, 

Thank you a lot for the example provided!

Best, 

Lucky

Hi Gentlemen, 

I would be very grateful if you could express your opinion on the below bar:

Red Eagle Order Medal: 

Oldenburg Honor Cross: 

Baden verdienst medal:

Overall the bar seems to be professionally constructed (all medals appear to be on the same level), the ribbons show uniform wear as well as medals.

The recipient was some imperial court worker of low rank between 1900 and 1908 which is supported by the silver Red Eagle Medal and Baden Medal both given till 1908. The Oldenburg Honour Cross also supports this (could be awarded after 1908 too).

He has also participated as some diplomatic missions before the WW1 which is supported by the Bulgarian Civil Order and Austrian Cross on civil ribbon. 

At some point he joined the Landwehr and during the WW1 he was participated had some war related service close to the Red Cross which is supported by the War Merit Medal and the Austrian Red Cross. 

Does the above makes sense and what do you think about the Baden Medal attachment, I have never seen it attached this way. Though for the medals produced 1881-1908 without signature I have seen medals without any eyelet: 

https://www.kuenker.de/de/archiv/stueck/79039

I guess given the low rank of the recipient it will be impossible to identify him. 

Also this bar reminds me of this one which is somehow similar: 

Will be happy for any comment !

Thank you, 

Lucky

Hi Gentlemen, 

Would it be possible to know your opinion on this MVK2XC: 

Please correct me if I am wrong: 

Cross and swords are GH. Front Medallion has belt of GH type. 

The only doubt is the silver gilt from my point of view. 

There is quite a lot of silver gilt which was lost on the back especially. 

Could this be a MVK3KXC to which enamel and silver gilt was applied ? 

Or this is expected loss due to wear?

Thank you, 

Lucky

23 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

The BZ3bX date is from the award roll. The EK2 date is from his EK2 document, which is in his Nachlaß in the Landesarchiv.

For the award rolls, are there some publicly available sources or this is mainly available through books which are not to be find online ? 

Thank you, 

Lucky

Hi Dave!

Thank you a lot for this very interesting information!

I can see he was appointed by Frederick II of Baden himself.

Would it be possible to know where you found the information concerning the dates of his awards ?

Thank you.

Lucky

Hi Gentlemen,

I recently acquired the following ordensspange:

It came with a note that it belonged to Walter Karl Erich Brande  (1886-1975). 

I would be very grateful if you find any information linked to when he received the Zahringer Lion 2nd Class and any information concerning his military carrier and ranks. 

Thank you a lot in advance.

Lucky

Hi Graf, 

Thank you a lot for your comment. 

It has high probability therefore to be a fake assembly.

Lucky

Hi Gentlemen, 

I came across this Bulgarian medal bar and will be very grateful if you could express your point on view on the below remarks:

+All the ribbons seems to be old 

+Medals and orders seem to be fine, however I am a beginner in the Bulgarian orders and medals

-He has the commemorative Serbian-Bulgarian War medal 1885, and Commemorative medals 1912-1913, 1915-1918, so already in 1885 he was in the army however in at least 32 years of service he does not have X, XX service medals and he does not have the Order of Military Merit and the Merit Order (Za Zasluga). 

-From all the medal bars I have seen on Bulgarians this is the first one to have the first variant of the commemorative 1885 Serbian-Bulgarian War medal, which after the abdication of the king had to be replaced with the new type. 

Will be very grateful for your comments on the above remarks and photos. 

Thank you, 

Lucky

Glenn J, 

Thank you a lot for the information! I will try to find those.

Lucky

Hi Glen J, 922F thank you both for all this very interesting information. 

Glen J, the information you gave is very precise, If possible I would be very grateful if you could share where you found those details.

Thank you a lot, 

Lucky

Photo was taken a piori in Varna til 1906. Looking in the 1904/1905 Orden Almanach he did not have yet the Proa. 

Hi Deruelle,

Thank you lot for giving that information, the bar seems in line with his decorations, just the Bulgarian order of civil merit is missing. 

Lucky

Hi Gentlemen,

I would be very gratefull if you could help me gather more information about the carrier and decorations dates of Georg Gabriel whose photos and decorations are shown below. 

The only thing I could find on the web was that he was serving  as a diplomat in Varna between 1899 and 1906.

Hi Gentlemen, 

I will be very grateful to know you opinion on the authenticity of the below bar, currently sold on ebay:

The medals seem fine to me. 

The ribbons also seem to be of an old type. 

However the mounting of the ribbons (the fact that they seem to be mounted very handy) and the fact that ribbons look quite new give doubts. 

What do you think ? 

Thank you

Lucky

The auction house confirmed it is a gold-plates Wendish Crown Order. 
Could someone mention since when this order started to be made from gold-plated instead of gold? 
Thank you

Hi, thank you for your answers. Will be grateful if someone could help to track the possible recipient as this would prove the originality of the bar. Also as separate question, are there sources/ books  accessible to new collectors which would allow to try to track the possible recipient? Thank you in advance

13 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

If one were to see the first five decorations all by themselves, it would represent a very common combination typically belonging to a long serving Prussian officer and veteran of the Franco Prussian War.  The bar would have been assembled in 1897 or sometime thereafter. 

 

The triple combination of the Prussian Crown 3rd Class, the Wendish Crown Knights Cross, and the White Falcon Honor Cross make sense to me in that they are comparable grades of their respective orders.  These 3 orders also indicate to me that there is a very good chance that after his military service, this person became an administrative staffer or civil servant who served in a capacity where he interacted with or served in Mecklenburg and Saxony-Weimar.

 

I am a bit lazy this morning, so I don't feel like pulling out the Prussian State & Court Handbooks looking for a Beamter with this award combo.  But I'm sure there are other people here who not as lazy and useless as I am this morning and who might feel like  perusing these volumes.

 

Will this bar be featured in an upcoming auction?  If so, what auction?   Also, I'm not so sure the Wendish Crown is gold.  It looks very much like it might be gilt silver.

Hi Simius Rex, 

Thank you for you reply. 

The lot can be found here: 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/en-gb/item/102792088_prussian-world-war-i-officer-s-medal-bar-7

I took me to long to edit my initial post. 

Will post here all the photos and questions :

Hi Gentlemen, 

I come across this medal bar. I am only a beginner in this field and I would be very grateful if you can give your opinions on its originality.

Red eagle and order of the crown:

Order of the Wendish Crown and Order of the White Falcon Cross of Honor:

The medal bar is currently sold at an auction. It was mentioned that the Order of the Crown is in gold and Order of the Wendish Crown is also in gold. 

All orders are unmarked. 

In terms of the easiest checks:

the medal bar seems in line to other specimens I saw. 

The order in which decorations appear on the bar seam to be in line to other specimens I saw. 

Ribbons look to be old. 

Also the decorations are attached under the ribbon so not easily to be removed. 

The orders themselves seem to look very authentic.

However, given the rarity of the Wendish Crown Order and the White Falcon Honour Cross I would be very grateful to know you opinion if a combination of the 2 is possible and if those 2 orders look authentic to those who are experienced in this field. Given the rarity of the Wendish Crown Order and the White Falcon Honour Cross I would be very grateful to know you opinion if a combination of the 2 is possible.

Thank you a lot, 

Lucky

Hi Gentlemen, 

I come across this medal bar. I am only a beginner in this field and I would be very grateful if you can give your opinions on its originality.

p12

Given the size restrictions I will post below other photos.

Thank you

59 minutes ago, waldo said:

Hello Lucky,

As previously written, all golden parts or crosses that were made 
of gold were only made of gold-plated silver from 1917 onwards. 
Also the MVO 3rd class.

It is important that the flames of the MVO 3rd class are used 
separately, i.e. not included in the casting. This does not apply to 
the 4th grade !!!

If you are offered a 3rd class MVO, silver gold-plated, always look 
at the flames to see whether they were also used later. This also 
applies to the higher classes.

I hope that I have now understood your question correctly and that 
you are satisfied with my answer.

Best wishes
Walter

Dear Waldo, 

Yes, thank you a lot for the confirmation!