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    922F

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    Posts posted by 922F

    1. Specialist websites like that of M. Semon chronicle these sorts of awards.   Most of the groups that use such awards have [or had] a five class award structure usually with French style ranks/insignia. 

      The first item on the mini bar that resembles a Belgian Royal Order of the Lion cross format with commander rosette on ribbon indicates membership in the Société Vivre et Sourire [live & smile/laugh Society]  also known as Société Dévouement Civiquesee, among other names, see eZay https://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/MED-556-MEDAILLE-VIVRE-ET-SOURIRE/401610527583?hash=item5d81da535f:g:rs8AAOSwhN5btFee:rk:1:pf:0    The second has been identified as either the Royal Polish [exile] Merit Order or the Franco-Polish Historical Recognition Order.   I know of no definitive proof for either or what entity it definitely indicates.  As to the blue enamel one, I do not have even a tentative identification.  A similar badge with red enamel arms, however, is yet another Public Education/Instruction society award.

      The Ordre Ouvre Humanitaire officer mini is 2nd type.  The group had to alter their badge design as the first type [pictured above post 3] resembled Legion of Honor insignia too closely.  


      Except for high-profile people decorated by these  'charitable organizations' generally for publicity purposes, persons admitted to such bodies pay what equate to admission, membership and insignia cost fees as well as contribute to various associated fund-raisers.  The groups use money they collect to do good.  Many of them actually put some of the funds they collect to charitable use--others do not using them for social functions or 'overhead' expenses.  

    2. This museum constantly improves in terms of facilities, displays and information resources.  The staff, unfailingly knowledgeable, helpful to visitors, and polite, really appear to enjoy their work.  I first visited it in 1980 when housed in an old barracks closer to the city center.  Even then, it was of remarkable quality. Enhanced presentation, not to mention the greatly increased range of materials on display, really sets a standard for similar exhibitions.   Other Eastern European military museums, like the National Military Museum (Muzeul Militar Naţional) at 125-127 Mircea Vulcănescu St., Bucharest, Romania, offer further outstanding examples of the museological art.   

    3. Mea Culpa--too old eyes and faulty memory.

      Last 2 photos seem to show Raeder with a ribbon bar and pin back awards.  Boris' bio Crown of Thorns reports "...Field Marshal Keitel and Grand Admiral Dönitz headed the German delegation", p 384.  I find no mention of Boris' funeral in Dönitz' autobiography.  It would seem extremely unusual that both Dönitz and Raeder would attend so CoT likely seems wrong!   Raeder reportedly received the Grand Cross of the Order of St. Alexander with swords on September 3, 1941.  It looks like the Bulgarian report claiming that both Dönitz & Keitel received a Bulgarian star & sash set before Boris' funeral ceremonies was completely incorrect!  
       

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY3A1x3ZH2Q at 1:15 3:02 certainly looks like Raeder wearing a St. Alexander GC star with Keital in background!   See also 04621.jpg 

    4. This may be either ex-Alexander Patterson collection which Paul describes above or of a piece with that example.  The serrated reverse center and clunky reverse ribbon attachments indicate that type work.   Another person [don’t recall the name but maybe a Bavarian] started as a sort of EB worker/collaborator  but graduated to making or enhancing their own product for a year or two in the mid-1970's.  This variety is somewhat cruder than those attributed to Ernst.  [Oak leaf reverse bent pin attachment may be a hint?]  D.R. Overall-Hatswell Collection had several of both types.   

    5. 1812 thank you for the above images!

      The 4th funeral image depicts Keitel wearing what appears to be a St. Alexander star, maybe Grand Cross with swords through the center.  Conceivably, he received a St. Alexander in 1941-2 when he liaised closely with the Bulgarians during the Balkan Campaign.  That possibility leaves open what, if any, Bulgarian award with star he and Dönitz may have received at the funeral.  

      Image 7 angle seems to show Dönitz with a Romanian Michael the Brave and pinback awards but in image 5 Dönitz does not appear to wear these.   Suspect that apparent image 7 awards actually relate to the Romanian officer in image 7 back standing behind and to left of Dönitz.   

    6. Hi Yankee,

      Yes, sadly the phaleristic enhancer’s or forger’s art is/was widespread and has been documented in 1890’s sales/auction catalogs and probably before.  Some copies may truly be replacements for original recipients' lost awards.  Others seem clearly made for more or less legitimate purposes, like the Imperial Haitian Order insignia made in the 1950’s by Bertrand to illustrate Major Francis Etienne’s book, Decorations haitiennes a travers l'histoire Port-au-Prince (1954), and the French Three Golden Fleeces examples.  Others….[1974] well do you really want that Berthold collar for 90,000DM?  

      To my knowledge Rothe never put other than their marks [if any] on their ‘collector copy’ work.  This was done by 'job lotters' or individuals.  Tells include Rozet & Fischmeister’s name/logo engraved on Iron Crown reverse banderolls [aka lappets or infulae], something never seen on original R & F work which have the names in relief or raised letters.   Other give-aways include bungled letter, trapezoid & and star punches suggesting Meyer origin on Leopold or Maria Theresa badge ribbon loops.

      However, Rothe certainly made copies of their work well into the 1960’s and early '70's at least.  Even as late as the late '80's they did special commission work, mainly on A-H orders but also Mexican Eagle badges, a couple of Italian States Orders and Bavarian Crown stars among others.  These were on display for sale in vitrines to the right of the shop entry door and in counter cases along with genuine items.   One could specify bronze-gilt or silver-gilt varities--not sure about gold.  

      While the metal stamping work of those is often hard to differentiate from original work, the enamel work and enamel detail fall short of originals.  The very heavy crosshatching on Bavarian Crown star centers is a give-away for example…and whether Rothe ever was an official supplier of that order insignia remains an open topic.

      Again to my understanding, Rothe did make 'replacement' and collector pieces through the '20's-'50's.  Maybe up to the early ‘60’s they might have put A-H or Austrian tax release stamps on these but they seem to have stopped applying tax stamps around that time. 

      Someone one this forum mentioned that Rothe dies were sold –2007-14?  Possibly those now enjoy reuse?    

    7. You may be correct E, however, Busch & Röll [Der U-Boot-Krieg 1939–1945 — Die Ritterkreuzträger der U-Boot-Waffe von September 1939 bis Mai 1945] list Military Order of Savoy Commander's Cross (7 November 1941) but not a Maurice & Lazarus of any grade.  One might think he would have had M & L but given the Military Order of Savoy's higher prestige/rank would expect that’s the one he would wear. 

      Busch & Röll may be incomplete.  In the 1980's a Bulgarian report on King Boris' funeral indicated that both Dönitz & Keitel received a Bulgarian star & sash set before the ceremonies.  Do not remember exactly what decoration or if this is reported/verified elsewhere.  Given their ranks would expect probably St. Alexander GC or lst class but who knows if this account is accurate or the actual award.   If true then Dönitz could have also had a Maurice & Lazarus commander, if not Grand Cross.

    8. Paul's droll comments always welcome and usually on TARGET!!

       

      Laurentius,  In my experience, the Rothe firm exclusively made and sold copies that bear their stamps and/or characteristic details themselves.  "Job-lotters" could & did buy 10 to 25 exemplars of the same insignia at a discount and then trickle those onto the collector market.  These might be somewhat altered by having a different producer’s name or marks [definitely including V. Mayer’s Söhne and Rozet & Fischmeister] engraved or stamped into them, notably Iron Crown and Maria Theresa badges.  I do not know whether Ernst secured 'loans' of Rothe dies but would tend to doubt it. 

      Some items credited to him appear to be mules, meaning assembled from either spare parts [of Godet & a few believed Hemmerle and Souval origin, at least] or spare parts married with newly made elements sometimes created from original dies.  Outright completely new fabrications attributed to Ernst include Saxon Sidonia, Bavarian Saint Hubert & Maximilian [solid, not hollow, 14k gold] and other insignia supposedly made in Spain, Thailand or elsewhere in Southeast Asia.  At one time specialists claimed that he provided the glut of high Thai Orders [Nine Gems, Chula Chom Klao] on the market & indistinguishable from awarded sets in the late 1970’s-early’80’s plus fake first type Thai Orders. 

    9. Thank you Komtur for this wonderful information, image and documentation!  The Major's bar further confirms that swords affixed to suspension ribbons indicate military division Black Eagle Order awards.  A question--the Black Eagle badge seems to be silver so would be an officer's....or 4th class.  Maybe the apparent number 4 written in by hand indicates these men received the 4th or officer's class.    Or perhaps he got promoted within the Order?  

      May I ask where you found this Inhaber list and whether similar lists for other grades may be found and consulted or copied ?   I understood that Dr, Klietmann had compiled a list of persons decorated with the Black Eagle Order which was deposited in a Berlin genealogical society archive after his death. 

      A bar attributed to Lt. Czivisch appeared in an Orderns-Sammlung sale catalog in the early 1950s, maybe 1954.  Unfortunately, I do not have that catalog or recall exactly what awards the bar displayed other than a 1914 Iron Cross and maybe an Albert Order.  In any case, those catalogs contained no  images.

      J Jacob's book Court Jewelers of the World contains an image of the award bar of Lt. Ryssell.  [He is #1 on the list.]  

    10. Indeed, my friend!! 

      Ernst could be very pleasant, urbane, and a good host or he could present as a cold b*stard.  Most confidence men have Machiavellian ways!

      He involved himself in other phaleristic concerns [including non-Germanic research] too.   Ernst never admitted it but likely got connected to his Thai ‘producers’ when in Bangkok compiling his Thai opus.   

    11. An exceptional bar by any standard!  First time I've ever seen the Norwegian medal on a bar.

      Yes, Denmark-Norway-Sweden existed as a personal union [in brief, states united under a single monarch but with nominal individual national institutions and characteristics] from about the 1390's until about 1523 when Sweden became independent.   Denmark 'ceded' Norway to Sweden by terms of the 1814 Treaty of Kiel with Norway then entering into a personal union relationship with Sweden [in spite of serious Norwegian resistance].   Norway gained full independence in 1905 when the Norwegian Parliament dissolved that personal union with Sweden.   

      Great Dane and Christiana most likely describe why the recipient received non-Finnish awards.  Besides work during an official visit by police and such, railroad and ship personnel sometimes got this type award in recognition of excellent service or in lieu of a tip. 

    12. Paul, 

      Peter II awarded Royal Yugoslav Orders in exile up to October, 1970, the month before his death.  Often he used third class St. Savas but granted Orders of the Crown, White Eagle and Star of Karageorge up to Grand Cross grade as well.  Reportedly Peter II awarded the Order of Saint Prince Lazar to his son Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia, in 1963.   Peter created several distinctions in exile including the well-known Royal War Cross 1941-45 and a Knight Bachelor honor.   Possibly he instituted other awards.

      Crown Prince Alexander may have bestowed the Order of Saint Prince Lazar upon his son Peter, Hereditary Prince of Yugoslavia in 1997/8.

      Alexander currently awards the Orders of St. Sava, White Eagle and Star of Karageorge.  Press releases announce and a ‘Royal Gazette’ publishes such accolades.  I have no information on Alexander’s use of the Order of the Crown, the Knight Bachelor title & insignia or the Royal War Cross 1941-45.

    13. Andreas is much more expert and is very willing to help -- www.medalnet.net -- ask him.  The English name for this award is the Order of the Zähringer Lion (ZLO).

      Older ZLOs may have punch marks on the extruded ring or loop at the top of the cross, which is broader than yours.  Some of that type may have marks on the ribbon suspension loop/ring [a split jump ring like yours] above the cross ring.  Most later pieces have a narrow top of cross ring [like yours] without any space for marks although some are reported with a mark on the lower cross arm edge.  Some badges have closed ribbon rings rather that split jump rings.    

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