new world

Details of the reverse:

Details of the cross.

I was given the following description for this order:

Romania Kingdom - Order of the Romanian Star, Grand Cross, sash badge, 1st type. With Sash, hallmarked on the ring.

Size - 75x125mm

I don't have experience in handling this award, please provide your opinions.

I have two main questions:

1) Does the reverse suppose to look like this? I don't see blue enamel on the arms of the cross - it this normal?

2) Is sash ribbon original?

Thank you!

I have doubts Bulgarian Military Merit belongs to this medal bar - it looks like it was made in later period (probably Boris III).

Also, Military Merit is officer-level award - I am not sure this bar is to an officer. More logical award on this bar would be Soldier's Bravery Cross or Medal for Merit.

922F is correct - there are no 4th or 5th classes of this medal, only 3 classes existed.

As for number of awarded medals - reference books list certain numbers, but many collectors believe that numbers are much higher that previously thought.

One can find 3rd class for sale almost anytime - many in original cases, with signs of wear, some part of the groups. I also have seen good number of period photos of Bulgarian officers. Almost every single officer had this medal wearing. That proves that there were more than 475 medals awarded, otherwise medal would be rarely seen on the market.

It's medal of Youth Organization of The Red Cross, from WW2 period.

Medal existed in 3 classes. Most likely it's 2nd class (it's supposed to be in silver, see how silver plating had worn out).

Ribbon for 2nd class should be solid green.

There's something odd about his award book:

- it was issues on November 28, 1945 and had only his HSU and Lenin awards filled in initially,

- his other awards were added at later date - see different handwriting, stamped in awards instead of written in and use of different color ink.

But he definitely had his other awards before November 1945, so why didn't they fill in his early awards first and then added HSU/Lenin?

I am sure there's explanation for this, just want to know the logic behind.

Hello new world,

It is all a matter of perspective. I was not specifically searching for the item until a related search led me to the same area and I noticed the group. After some other checking and research, by the time I had returned 'a couple of hours later' the item had sold!

On a related note it did actually have a good finish as it led me somewhere else where I picked up 2 Serbian Commemorative Cross' for the War of Liberation and Union, 1914-1918. One is the Arthus Bertrand produced cross with an award document to a Serbian officer, and the other a Huguenin Freres produced cross in a box to a French soldier, with the corresponding award document.

Even though I was disappointed at the time I am philosophical about such things and I have had a good result with the cross' so all is good. When I have time I will scan the items and post pics.

Regards,

Rob

Rob,

I didn't mean any sarcasm towards you, it's just your phrase reminded me how many times I saw this group sitting on a web site and you made it sound like it was snapped immediately after it was listed.

On the positive note - will you please show us your documented crosses?

William

To all,

I recently missed out on this group by a matter of hours ...

"By a matter of hours"?

That dealer had it for at least a year...

Visiting another friend - he showed me box of Nevsky orders, about 10 of them all @ $300 a pop.

I've got only one or two :angry:

A friend of mine offered bunch of Glories 3 class (about 20 or 30) for $17 a piece.

I passed... :speechless:

Medal is uncommon because few were awarded, but there were many manufactured and never handed out to anyone. There are very limited numbers of medals with documents, they are very rare indeed.

The reason you see so many of these medals around - couple years ago Bulgarian Mint sold non-awarded orders and medals to dealers / collectors.

Spanish Brigades medal was one of them, including many other rare awards.

Then these fake boxes began to appear to accomodate non-awarded medals.

William

My only example (Gold Class) came in an unmarked case:

They are not supposed to be in unmarked case, especially higher 1st class.

William

Christer,

sorry to disappoint you, but your "original box" is a fake.

William

Not wanting to add more fuel to the flames in what is getting a bit "snarly", but three British groups follow. All images small and not great, but the groups aren't mine.

Ed, those are some awesome groups! It would be curious to see citations for Soviet awards.

I agree that Red Star in question was converted to suspension in similar style as OPW was, the key question is whether it was done by the recipient or by someone trying to make extra $$$.

William

Are there pictures of the group you keep mentioning?

Without any proof whatsoever award in the auction does not have any credibility.

Without documentation or photographic proof this order should be treated as a fantasy piece.

Very nice!!!

Many thanks Milan

How much is the approx. payed price for such a convolute?

Thank you

KDVR

KDVR,

It's hard to tell about the price these days.

Couple years ago such sets were selling in $500 to $1,000 range.

William

Doc,

why did you have to remove all images of cross and star?

William

Actually, his real website is this:

http://www.polishmilitaria.com/

I think he sells the stuff on ebay just as another way of advertising. He does have quite a lot of high-end medals.

-Alex

Some of the listings on that web site make one scratch one's head:

"SU2072 - Soviet Order of the Patriotic War,gold,#2762720,hallmarked. Price: $420.00" - He advertises 1985 version as gold WWII issue. Market price for 1985 OPW is around $30-40.

"Imperial Russia, Order of St.George,non-Christian,silver metal.Price: $150.00" - St George crosses sell for $500+ these days, there must be a reason why such "bargain" has not been sold.

Plus, there are no pics withe any of the listing, - what's the reason for this?

Doc,

I assume this is the same person who sold you the cross in question:

http://stores.ebay.com/POLISH-MILITARY-DECORATIONS

Check out Item number: 250037085156 - it seems to be of better quality than the one you have in your collection.

Doesn't this look suspicious that the seller offers so many high-level awards at the same time??? For such rare awards there has to be better way to sell than eBay. Imagine someone selling 10 HSU stars or 10 Suvorov orders on eBay...

Doc,

can you post non-resized pic of this area on the front?

William

here's real cross of the same PRL issue, you can see the difference in quality.

William

Doc,

I've never seen real one close, but your cross looks really sloppy.

Just look at the place where top section is attached to the cross - there's bad soldering job. I would expect better quality on such high level award.

Plus, this type being awarded less than 20 times, what are the chances of you getting real one?

William