new world

Perhaps Igor meant House of Rothe.

On 05/12/2021 at 13:27, Igor Ostapenko said:

star and cross of order St. Alexander 2nd class from Kretly now for sale ( Drouot ) 

Color of the star seems strange to me, it looks like it was made from brass. Also plating on the cross is way too bright.

Perhaps the it's because the quality of their photos?

Medal bar in last photo has some awards in wrong positions. 

This should be correct placement and of course Bravery Cross is missing on position #2.

On 21/11/2021 at 08:22, Igor Ostapenko said:

No, this badge never not was gilded . 
 

It’s two different badges . 
 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/btw/bulgaria/bulgaria.shtml

Gilded badges receive germany personal 

But silver badge from 1937 receive bulgarian pilots after flying school ? 

Igor, but the documents you posted do not explicitly say "silver grade". 

That extra loop on top of Pilsudski's cross looks out of place, it's purpose was to be put on a neck ribbon, which leads me to believe that it's a lower class cross.

It's likely that originally he was awarded a set with proper Grand Class cross, but it got lost over the years and was replaced by similar looking 2nd class.  

Could it be that "white one" is just normal gold badge with lost/worn out gold plating? 

Very nice! It looks like it was unused, as all pins are intact.

Outstanding and very rare medal!

hi,

Classes of order changed over time.

Initially there were 6 classes similar to what you described:

- Great Cross (1st class)
- Grand Officer (2nd class)
- Commander (3rd class)
- Officer (4th class)
- Knight (5th class)
- Silver Cross (6th class).

In 1930s separate Grand Cross was added:

- Grand Cross,

- 6 classes as before.

Crown and swords were always elements of the design, with exception of lower classes which could be awarded with or without the crown (5th and 6th classes). 

There were 2 distinctions to indicate awarding related to war:

- Military distinction was introduced around 1915-16 for awards given during war time. Center medallion color was also changed from green to white for awards with military wreath.

- Around Balkan Wars time awards were give on ribbon of Bravery order to signify wartime merits.

Another major modification was done around 1937 where special design of medallion on reverse was used ("flat" version). 

After Monarchy ended in 1944 there were additional modifications, but this is a different story altogether. 

Hope this helps.  

This fake can certainly fool some collectors. Fakers are getting better at their craft.

As previous posters said - this is very interesting document, because the commemorative medal should have been given to a soldier KIA, hence the ribbon with black stripe. Medals that came with this document are on incorrect ribbons.

Furthermore, the document and medal were given to the son of the soldier with the right to wear the medal. 

This is not a common document, congrats!

"Is it possible to have a translation of the father and sons names?"

Father: Dobri Nikolov Obretenov

Son: Nikola Dobrev Nikolov

I agree with ilieff, these are officers, and as such they wear awards on triangular ribbons. I think they were awarded Soldier Bravery when they were in NCO/soldier ranks and awards were on usual flat ribbons. Once they advanced to the officer ranks they started using triangular ribbons.

1 hour ago, ilieff said:

- Notice how the crosses are awarded with 'straight' ribbons, as they are meant to. It seems that the practice of folding ribbons in a triangular fashion was something the recipients were occasionally doing themselves, if we are to generalise by the large number of triangular ribbons dating from this period. 

- The paper envelopes for the crosses are also given away

 

 

These awards were to NCOs as seen in the photo, these were Soldier crosses and are supposed to be on straight ribbons, most of them are seen on straight ribbons as well. And yes - they were given in the envelopes.

Officer grade Bravery awards were given on triangular ribbons.

21 hours ago, Graf said:

Hi New World,

 

Well if you are monarch and you have those  family decorations in your hands then you can wear them regardless whether you won them or not...off course it will raise few eyebrows It is good to be a King

 

 

I don't think it works that way, you are not supposed to wear awards you did not earn or which were not given to you. Even Kings were to follow the rules. If Simeon decided to wear anything he liked that looks really bad for him, especially award which was supposed to be earned during the time of war. 

Notice how Boris wore only 3rd class of Bravery and shoulder boards of Colonel. He cold have given himself any award or rank... 

 

How did Simeon get St Alexander star with swords in the middle?  He never commanded any military units during war, he was too young, basically a child to participate in WWII.

I understand that he gets Grand Chain of St Alexander as a Bulgarian Monarch, but that should be regular version without swords. 

Interesting - all known attributed Civil Merit awards seem to be to foreigners. Except 1st class posted by Igor.

Small sample to draw any conclusions, perhaps Bulgarian documents did not survive.

Thank you Igor, this is really nice example of this award!

Perhaps my post was not very clear, what I was trying to say was - we can't say that they specifically made 1st class or 2nd class in flat emission. Rather, they made limited quantity of 'flat' Commander crosses, which later could be awarded by themselves (as 3rd class) or paired with 1st or 2nd class stars.

We don't know how this pairing process worked and how many - if any at all - 1st class awards were created. Following Igor's example, we know there was one award of Civil Merit. We don't know of any Military Merit 1st class awards.

Interestingly, the awards for 2nd class with documents I observed were both given to foreigners - one to an Italian Diplomat and another to a Professor/Rector of a University in Slovakia.

I received new book. 

I quickly went through the book and overall I like it. There are some interesting photos of the awards and documents that I never saw before.

The format of the book and design of the pages remind me of books by Petrov.

On 13/07/2021 at 19:44, Graf said:

Only one year and perhaps the only King Boris Emission without Grand Cross  The highest Class looks to be 1st Class

Well, it's debatable whether there was even a 1st class in flat emission. The size of the cross during 1930s was the same for 3rd, 2nd and 1st classes, only the star identified the award to a certain class. This means that if you have a neck cross in 3rd class you can match it with a star and make it a 1st or 2nd class set.

We have to look at the awards with provenance. In over 20 years collecting I never saw a 1st class in flat emission neither in Civil Merit nor in Military Merit. Furthermore, I only saw few 2nd class sets which came with the documents.

Again, not saying with 100% certainty that 1st class did not exist in flat version, perhaps they are just so rare that I never encountered one, but based on my personal experience I am sceptical.  

On 11/07/2021 at 09:36, Graf said:

This model is one of the most difficult to get  So far I have seen only handful Orders from this model

After many years I managed to get second one to my collection

This one is 6th Class with crown

If you have any orders from this model can you list them

I have not seen any high classes (only in books) in any sales or collections

 choose files...

Than you for posting these medals! This variation is super rare, was supposedly made only for one year. 

On 11/07/2021 at 09:36, Graf said:

 

 

 

 

hi Igor,

It seems quite reasonably priced at only 22.30 Euro.

It looks like the books can be ordered here:

https://bgknigite.com/shop/орденът-за-храброст-сред-отличият/?v=a112b4dbca96

Seller accepts PayPal and other forms of payment (bank, etc.).

I am a bit confused on the area this book covers - the title makes it sound like it focuses on Bravery Order, but I see that 1st half is on other Bulgarian awards and last part is on modern Bravery order, which leaver around 70 something pages to cover actual Bravery Order from Royal times.

The books appears to have some material and photos from this forum.

Anyway, I am looking forward to this book!

On 07/07/2021 at 00:34, Igor Ostapenko said:

I don’t know who it belonged to, but polish order Virtuti Militari awarding to romanian Major (av.) Ioan Peneș 

Nice, he was a pilot. I am sure there were more than one awarding of this order to Romanians.

On 05/07/2021 at 05:06, Graf said:

Hi Igor,

 

Look this St Alexander from the medal bar  They used similar cross as one I showed you in the post  from 14-th of October 2020

Such a lovely medal bar! Do we know who it belonged to?

Just because the quality of these old stars is lacking it does not mean they are automatically fakes or copies. There were official manufacturers with consistent top quality products and there were private makers, with whom the quality was all over the place. 

On 10/06/2021 at 05:13, Graf said:

This cross is for sale on eBay for the crazy price of $1700  The "new seller" provided better pictures One can see the"after market work around the crown arms

 

Graf

Good luck to him. My guess is it will be sitting there forever at this price.