new world

Lovely Bravery awards, thanks for sharing!

That box for 3rd class is quite rare!

On 05/06/2021 at 22:23, Graf said:

My latest red Cross item

 

Graf

 

 

Excellent medal! It's the rarest of them all.

Very nice Royal Romanian medals, they look original to me!

Is there anything specific you'd like to know?

I second 922F's opinion, this crown looks like Eastern Orthodox type, it was probably taken from some church award.

The cross is early Schwerdtner type, pre-1908 type.

I'd say the original crown was lost or damaged and was replaced with church one.

On 10/03/2021 at 14:32, new world said:

Supposedly this is 1st class set of Bravery Order. However, it looks like a mismatched set:

1) Star from 1st class, 68 mm wide.

2) Cross is from 2nd class:

- height is 73 mm,

- width is 52 mm (which is measurement of 2nd class). 1st class should be 59 mm wide.

 

 

This mis-matched set of Bravery order was sold for 12 000 Euro + 27% buyer's premium, total of 15 240 Euro!!!

922F, 

Your stories are like the ones from the spy novels! You lived through some interesting times and events!

In reference to possibility of your host being Petrov or Pavlov it looks like they were too young. You said then your host was around 60 in 1980, which will make him around 100 today.

Pavlov passed away couple years ago and he was in his 80s.

I don't have data handy for age of T. Petrov, but for some reason I though of him as being younger as well. I could be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that he was in his 40s in 1980s.   

Hi 922F,

Your story is a fascinated one, even if it was not Raynov.

Not everyone was able to put together such great collection, it was certainly off limits for an ordinary collector during communist time.

First, rare awards were always super expensive and not affordable on a regular salary. One had to have extra sources of income, often illegal ones, like having secret factory to make things in high demand - clothes, shoes, etc. Such entrepreneurs vigorously protected they identities and did not display their wealth, did not buy expensive items, because that could create unnecessary attention from the authorities and would lead to jail time and confiscation of illegal gains and property.

Second, awards were considered antiques and dealing in antiques was prohibited, it was considered illegal trade, and such dealers were treated as parasites. There were laws against such activities, again resulting in jail and confiscation.

Lastly, tsarist awards were against the ideology and collecting them was not encouraged.

Considering above points I would guess the collector you met was someone well connected to party and government, perhaps someone famous - like a writer, artist, professor, scientist, or perhaps a retired military or law enforcement. Someone who was allowed exceptions from the laws and with whom the law enforcement was closing their eyes on his activities. Considering that your host was inviting people to his apartment to see the collection, I think his hobby was not a secret to the authorities.   

If it was not Raynov, do you think it could be one of the people who researched the awards and later wrote the books on the subject - someone like Prof. Pavlov or T. Petrov?  

9 hours ago, 922F said:

Thank you, Graf!!!    

I will continue searching for the obverse image of this star.

 

I looked at images of Bogomil Raynov but just do not remember the face well enough.  The man that I knew almost always smiled and was, as the French say, très très sympa.   Raynov's expression in images found on the Internet appear quite dour.    My  acquaintance  certainly had complete understanding of royal Bulgarian and foreign awards.  His collection included any number of 'classic' European decorations in addition to the full range of Bulgarian material. 

 

There was a small staircase in his main apartment that led up to the upper one so one did not have to go outside.   We drank Chateau d'Euxinograd wine which was extremely difficult to find in Sofia at the time.  A sort of concierge who did not appear to be a typical guard attended the entry of the building; you had to have permission to enter. 

 

If someone knew Raynov's address and remembers the upper apartment, that might settle the matter.   Cannot imagine many Bulgarians having such an arrangement in 1980!

 

 

Here is an article about robbery of Raynov's home:

https://www.168chasa.bg/article/2375452

There are some medals mentioned in the list of stolen items.

Also, apparently he had large art and books collection, which you likely saw if you visited his home.

At the bottom of the page there are photos his house and apartment building - do they look familiar?

More:

https://blitz.bg/article/18802

http://bolgari.org/oshte_prizhive_bogomil_rainov__stopil__domashniia_si_muzei-el-916.html

https://www.marica.bg/balgariq/100-g-ot-rojdenieto-na-bogomil-rajnov

On 16/03/2021 at 07:25, new world said:

I think you are referring to photo in this thread:

 

 

Just to clarify, the fake in this photo and the link (the one which was sold to me long time ago) is a partial fake:

- Center part on the front is real, with hard enamels,

- Cross with white enamel is fake - soft enamel and weird finish on the back.

It looks like someone found parts of old award and made missing parts from scratch.

On 13/03/2021 at 10:14, 922F said:

Somewhere here, if I remember correctly, there is a post describing fake first class 68 mm. Bravery Order stars.  Wasn't the most obvious characteristic the reverse rivet fastener?  I can't find that post could someone refer to it please?

I think you are referring to photo in this thread:

3 hours ago, 922F said:

Somewhere here, if I remember correctly, there is a post describing fake first class 68 mm. Bravery Order stars.  Wasn't the most obvious characteristic the reverse rivet fastener?  I can't find that post could someone refer to it please?

I know exactly what you mean, I once bought a copy with such fastener (I was lucky to be able to return it). I'll try to search for pics on my old PC drive.

It looks like star in the latest "set" has enamel cracks on the left side of top and bottom arms, which is a good indication that it's hard enamel. If that is the case chances are that star is real.

17 hours ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

Of course - cross second class 

So, what do you think is happening here:

- Seller is trying to deceive,

- Seller really doesn't know the difference?

17 hours ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

 

Supposedly this is 1st class set of Bravery Order. However, it looks like a mismatched set:

1) Star from 1st class, 68 mm wide.

2) Cross is from 2nd class:

- height is 73 mm,

- width is 52 mm (which is measurement of 2nd class). 1st class should be 59 mm wide.

5 hours ago, PREM said:

Hi!

What do you think, a heavily used Bravery Order or a fake?

 

Looks fine to me. This is a common type, they are not copied.

Impressive find!

The most difficult one to obtain - due to rarity and sky high cost!!!

Well, it could be a version to consider, but the award was sold as attributed to a German General, who served during WWI, so he had to be awarded during Ferdinand time, as after 1918 German Empire did not exist:

"Aus dem direkten Nachlaß des Generals der Kavallerie Ludwig Moritz Camillo Freiherr von Müller (1854-1943), Generaladjutant König Friedrich August III. von Sachsen (1865-1932, reg. von 1905 bis 1918). "

 So, here you have a discrepancy and his award must be manufactured during Ferdinand period. 

2 hours ago, ilieff said:

Here's a visual comparison between this cross (white background) and other examples of grand and commander crosses (black background). I drew some horizontal lines to make it easier to see the ratios. 

A couple of things to keep in mind: all the crosses were visually fit to size based on the diameter of the arms (hence, this is a broad assumption that: a/ all images were taken 'straight on' and ignoring the inevitable tiling of the camera; b/ the original manufacturers kept the sizes of the crosses the same)

Quote

Thank you for the effort, but these comparisons are only valid if we compare crosses of the SAME sizes. 

Main problem is that auction house conveniently excluded dimensions of the cross from description of this lot. For the Grand Cross size of the cross is 54 mm, for 2nd class crosses with neck loop size is 50 mm - that's big difference, which will drastically change the scale of your comparison. 

Also, looking at your comparison I see that loop on top of cross on the left (known Grand Cross) in 1st comparison is thinner than on cross in the middle (from recent auction), which probably means that cross on the left is larger in size, hence making the crown larger as well.

I agree that it's not an ideal situation to discuss awards based only on the photos, but that's the best we have in this situation. Unless a member forum bought this award and decides to share more details with us.  

As far as awards were put away and not being worn - there are signs of wear:

1) Damage to enamel on the cross - front of left arm along the edge and back of right arm.

2) Loss on gold plating on top of the cross under the loop. This was caused by cross being lifted and rubbed against the lower edge of the crown.

These signs of wear likely were not created by a single wear, we should assume cross was worn several times. Oddly the star does not have visible signs of wear, which could be explained that only the cross was worn. One can treat this as a supporting evidence for the theory that cross was added to this set, but it's just a speculation.

On 23/12/2020 at 11:46, Daniel Krause said:

Hello friends,

 

Here is a piece from my collection. 

 

Best,

Daniel

Rare and nice medal bar!

On 19/12/2020 at 06:35, Graf said:

Nice 1915 Soldier Cross  marked "silber" on the ring

Probable maker Zimmermann

 

Great find, these are scarce, especially in sterling silver.

They probably got him one of tompac copies that we frequently see for sale.

Still, very nice gesture!!! Long live the Hero!

Those eagles looks weird

12 hours ago, Graf said:

Hi New World,

Thank you for the  adding to my point

 

Here is a low grade fake  Not only the high classes are safe from the fakers At least ,who ever buys it will not depart with handsome sum of cash

I see they fake low classes now...I hope they sell them as low priced souvenirs

On 29/06/2020 at 09:41, Graf said:

... There are Stars with the maker mark and also ones without this mark. The nuts on the back could be different Nevertheless all have very high quality finish You can see the nicely rounded edges of the stars arms 

There are legitimate stars without maker name on center backplate. You have to look at the entire package to determine if they are real or not.