JayBuck

Have you checked the ribbon ring? There may be a makers stamp on it.

I collect Clasps from the Kingdom of Saxony. Recently I acquired this beautiful clasp with the oak-leaf badge attached. Does anyone recognise the badge? I know it is nothing to do with the medals but perhaps it was worn by a particular regiment, veterans or Freikorps, tinny or a patriotic badge. Any ideas? as it came on the clasp

Thanks for that clear explanation. I now need to find out the troops in Etappenkommando 20 at that time. This may also explain the presence of the Austro-Hungarian gold Merit Cross with Crown if there were KuK troops under command.

Daniel Krause - that is outstanding. Many thanks. This brings me another step closer to proving that this group may be correct. Next question is - what is is "Kriegszahlmeister Feldkriegskasse Etappenkommando 20"?

I have had this medal group for a while. It was originally attributed to Zahlmeister Otto Körner. From research I have been able to establish the following: Born - 10 May 1868 in Tuttendorf, Saxony. 1895 - Zahlmeister "Hussars Regiment 'von Zieten' (Brandenburg) No. 3”. Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1895 1892 - 1901 - Zahlmeister Schutztruppe in German East Africa, 1892 - 1901 - Schutztruppe Farewell Gift 1901 1901 - Zahlmeister Schutztruppe in German East Africa. Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1901 1916 - Married Elise Wilhelmine Seipel 7 Nov 1916 1938 - Occupation: Oberzahlmeister außer Dienst (retired) - Gelnhausen Amtsbezirk (Resident’s Address Register) 1950 - Death: 16 Dec 1950 in Gelnhausen, Hesse But I have not been able to make any link to the Sachsen Armee during WW1( in any of the Rangliste post WW1). In fact he seems to disappear from the Rangliste for Germany/Prussia after 1901and doesn't appear in the Saxon Rangliste pre WW1 at all. Because of this and the fact that the bar has no proper cloth backing and the medals are in the incorrect order (I think), the general consensus is that this is a put-together-bar. If this is a put-together-bar there seems little point in keeping it together. But, as a collector, all instincts go against breaking it up. So one last appeal. Does anyone have access to a list of: Saxon Albert Order awardees Saxon Order of Merit awardees if such lists even exist! I've contacted the German archives in Berlin, State archives etc but to no avail. What else can I do?

Your assistance is most helpful. So I can dismiss the two post war entries. Good. And for the first time I have looked at the rear of the bar. I think we can dismiss it as a put together example. So if I go back to the 1910 Rangeliste, which is the listing for Oberzahlmeister Körner in IR24 what are the decorations that he should have? +4, FW2 . Could the Miniature Chain be correct?

An 1870/71 5 place Medal group Albert Order 1st Class with war decoration 1st type Bäcker Mütze head 1870 EK2, awarded A type, (mounted backwards) with Oak leaves, Saxony 1866 War Commemorative Cross Prussia 1870/71 War Medal Prussia 1897 Jubilee Medal EK2s are found mounted back to front on bars of this era from both Saxony and Bavaria. It is believed that this was to demonstrate disapproval of the predominance of Prussia in the emerging Imperial Germany. I don't have evidence for this so it may be a myth.

Here are photographs of some of my medal groups from the Kingdom of Saxony. First, a well worn group from the Franco Prussian War of 1870/71. Mounted in the traditional Saxony trifold style on a metal bar with each ribbon wrapped around an inverted metal triangle with a suspension hook. Prussia 1870 EK2 with 25 year clasp, Prussia 1870/71 War Medal with Vionville-Mars-LaTour and Paris clasps, Saxony 1866 War Commemorative Cross, Saxony 25 Years Service Medal, Prussia 1897 Jubilee Medal A modest 1870/71 three place medal group mounted on a bar that can be worn without the medals. Saxony 9 year Service medal, Prussia 1870/71 War Medal Prussia 1897 Jubilee Medal

Yes many questions which is why I post the group. My understanding is that Schutztruppe come under Prussian command where he was a Zahlmeister. He is listed in the Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1901 with FW2 after his name. He is listed again in the 1910 Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee as OberZahlmeister with IR24 with additional awards after his name. See picture below. The Saxon awards, EK2 and Austrian Gold Merit Cross with Crown on War Ribbon are all WW1 as you both point out. So either this is a totally made up fantasy group or the gentleman concerned held some role, other than that of Zahlmeister, during WW1 with the Saxon Army. I have tried to find his records in Dresden without success. The final puzzle is the listing in the listing in the Amtsbezirk for 1938 for the town of Gelnhausen, where I know his wife came from, as Oberzahlmeister außer Dienst (retired). I am pretty sure that this is the same Otto Körner who is listed in the 1901 and 1910 Rangeliste. It is what he did during WW1 that is a puzzle. He must have served in some capacity somewhere in the German Army but I have not been able find any reference that I can definitely say is him. Körner is not a common name. There is one Körner in the post war rangliste 1924 - Körner is not a common name. There is one Körner in the post war rangliste 1924 - Artillery Regiment 4 with a number of Saxon awards 1927 - Possibly the same man as above I'm still trying to understand the abbreviations for the awards so these two entries may be totally irrelevant. Also I have heard that the appointment of Zahlmeister was not used in the Army of Saxony. If that is correct what term was used? Thanks

Good day I'm trying to verify this medal group from the Kingdom of Saxony. I believe it belonged to Otto Körner who was Zahlmeister Schutztruppe in German East Africa, 1892 - 1901. This information is from an engraved plaque on a Schutztruppe Farewell Gift dated 1901. Colonial Medal with clasps for "German East Africa 1896" and "German East Africa 1900” supports that as does the Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1901. I have also found an Otto Körner listed as Zahlmeister "Hussars Regiment 'von Zieten' (Brandenburg) No. 3” in the Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1895. I'm assuming that this is the same guy before he was posted overseas. In which case the dates on the Schutztruppe Farewell Gift 1901 are incorrect. Now we have the area where I'm seeking further assistance. As well as the 1914 EK2 he has awards from Saxony as follows: Saxon Order of Merit Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Swords Albert Order Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Swords These suggest front line service during WW1. But I can't find out which branch or regiment. I'm guessing that these are not the sort of awards granted to a Zahlmeister, or are they? Saxon Long Service Award for Officers - 25 years presumably includes his time with Schutztruppe. And the Austro-Hungarian Gold Merit Cross with Crown? How would that fit in? Additional information born 10 May 1868 Tuttendorf, Saxony 1938 - listed as Oberzahlmeister außer Dienst (retired) - Gelnhausen Amtsbezirk (Resident’s Address Register) 1950 - Death: 16 Dec 1950 in Gelnhausen, Hesse