Komtur

August Riekehof-Böhmer

14 hours ago, Solomon said:

 

...

Georg Freiherr von Eppstein, personal friend of Prince Leopold IV. and his adjudant
,,,

My cross is Eppstein´s cross. ...

Prof. Georg Freiherr von Eppstein

11 minutes ago, Philip.S said:

... wearing any Weimar awards ...

Created in 1934 I believe this decoration can´t be referred in that way.

Regards, Komtur.

Dr. Felix Boehm

10 hours ago, Stogieman said:

... The First Class Red Cross Medal is relatively scarce. ...

It is, indeed 😉:

Kriminaloberwachtmeister Christoph Steudel

Godet! 

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

These do turn up from time to time, and the statutes allowed for wear of both.

I doubt, that this was according to the regulations, but indeed this unusual and scarce combination is to be found sometimes as a result of an unintended failure of the awarding procedure:

14 hours ago, tyanacek said:

...  If the list of recipients shown in the publication by Daniel is entirely complete, you would think that the medal bar would have to belong to one of the sixteen.  But it now appears that all sixteen can be excluded because they either had other decorations not on the medal bar or they lack a decoration that is on the medal bar.  Perhaps a few recipients have slipped through the cracks and do not appear on the listing?  Or could there possibly be a different von Roeder?  It’s actually a common name.  It is too bad that the first name is not listed nor the birth and death dates.  Perhaps it is also possible that this medal bar is a made up concoction and belongs to no real person?  Looking at the bar, though, (examining the orders, decorations, ribbons, and construction) I find this last possibility a bit hard to believe. ...

In the end all three options are possible:

1.) The list is not complete.

2.) There is a fitting von Roeder beside the ones we know.

3.) There is something wrong with this bar.

The last opportunity seems to me quite unlikely too. Designing such a bar in this clever combination needs a very informed and cute guy. But unfortunately this is not impossible.

Regards, Komtur.

The person you are looking for, must be one of the 16 with the Crown Order 3rd class on the white ribbon in Verleihungen von preußischen Kriegsorden und Ehrenzeichen im 1. Weltkrieg by Daniel Krause, published in February 2023 and to be found here.

You can exclude Frielinghaus, Gerlach, Hennig, Lösche, Methling, Müller-Berneck, Werner and Winter because of other listed awards in the Rangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine 1918 and Bartelt because of the same reason in Handbuch über den Königlich Preußischen Staat 1918 as Moroff in Militär-Handbuch des Königreichs Bayern 1914.

So there are left Koenemann, Ottilie, von Roeder, Schiemann, Szillinsky and Wittmann to search for in other sources e.g. rank lists, award lists etc.

Regards, Komtur.

Preuss-Kriegsorden.pdf

The participation in the inauguration ceromony of the Kaiser-Wilhelms-Denkmal in front of the Berlin palace qualified for the medal. Supposedly he was invited.

On 26/04/2023 at 01:04, CRBeery said:

Is there a list of the holders of the KO4 on the white ribbon? Maybe I can work backwards.

They are listed in the Königlich Preußische Ordensliste. In that case, you need the edition of 1868 (with about 1.500 pages), because the Crown Order 4th class on the white ribbon on your bar should have been awarded for the war in 1866. But unfortunately all the names are listed by the award date of the same class. Therefore these awards on that special ribbon (about 130) are mixed up with the hundreds names of the awards on the normal blue (peacetime) ribbon and with the also hundreds of awards of the order with swords on the war time ribbon.

It would take hours to search these 130 names out of the complete list for the Crown Order 4th class. Sorry, but that time I am not able to afford. 😔

May be in between this book is to be found online and you can search there yourself?

13 hours ago, CRBeery said:

He is gone in 1901. Checked every Wendt.

Gone indeed 😇

See same ranklist page 195 (Gest. = Gestorben = dead):

On 24/04/2023 at 12:35, saschaw said:

How about Hauptmann Wendt from Landwehrbezirk I Breslau? In the 1900 Royal Prussian army rank list, he's listed with RAO4, KO3, KO4w, EK2w and LD1.

 

An RKM3 is still missing, but he might have added that later...

 

 

My next rank list is from 1902, in which I could not find him. Neither is he listed in the 1904/05 or 1908/09 issues of Deutscher Ordens-Almanach. Komtur, might you maybe have a look into the Ordens-Listen?

 

 

(...)

 

No RKM3 for Hauptmann Wendt to be found in the Ordenslisten and in the Staatsanzeiger.

.

12 hours ago, CRBeery said:

While I am learning, I have this book also. It’s about 1/3 as thick. It is dated October 1900. What is the purpose of this book?

Only the active officers (Rangliste des aktiven Dienststandes) are listed, the Reserve and Landwehr is missing.

In accordance with the Königlich-Preußische Ordensliste 1886 indeed Militair-Intendantur-Rath (Hptm.) Zander b. 5. Armee-Korps got the Crown-Order 3rd class on 13th of September 1882.

But unfortunately he is no more listed in the Königlich-Preußische Ordensliste 1895, so he must have died in between. Therefore because of the creation of the Prussian Red Cross Medal in 1898 he can not be the one, you are searching for.

Regards, Komtur.

On 21/03/2023 at 04:47, CRBeery said:

I am seeing this type of combination in “Justice Advisors” in Garde units. ...

Something like that is quite possible. It looks like a military official (Militärbeamter), not necessarily justice and Garde, it could be any other kind of so called Intendanturbeamter and any other kind of unit. These military officials were the typical group for the rare awards of prussian orders on the white ribbon with black stripes.

Additionly these persons in 1871 got the Kriegsdenkmünze für Nichtkämpfer on the equivalent ribbon. If they with there units took part on combats, they were entitlet for the corresponding clasps. If the miniatur medal has the inscription Dem siegreichen Heere (I can´t see that for sure) it is the combatant version and for the discussed case the wrong medal. The combination of a combatant medal with the non-combatand-ribbon is not possible, but this mistake happend with miniatures sometimes because of the necessarily private purchase.

It is not unlikely, to track this combination down to one person. I would check Prussian rank lists from about 1890 to 1900 in the first part Armee-Eintheilung, where you can find these persons for the Armee-Corps and the Divisionen.

Regards, Komtur.

1 hour ago, Dave Danner said:

I would imagine the EK2w was awarded relatively early in the war, say 1915.  (...)

 

This would have entailed tearing up his pre-war ribbon bar, adding the EK2w and likely removing the Belgian order.

 

By 1917, when given the choice of adding additional awards, perhaps rather than tear apart his existing large trapezoidal bar, he had a ribbon bar made with the now more in-style shorter ribbons. ...

That seems to be consistant.

But if there is no mistake in this source and the editorial deadline was as usual in the beginning of the year, according to the 1916 versus 1918 edition of the Rang- und Quartierliste der Beamten der Militärverwaltung in Siekmann´s Taschen-Kalender für Beamte der Militärverwaltung Trzeciok got his Iron Cross at the earliest in the course of the year 1916:

On 10/03/2023 at 11:35, Stabsarzt Ia said:

Zacharias-Langhans, Dr. Gotthard war 1915 /1916 Marine-Oberassistenzarzt Türkisches Marine-Lazarett Taşkışla und Bosporus-Anatolisches Krankenhaus, EK II Juni 1915, Hamburgische Hanseaten Kreuz 31.1.1916 ...

Thank you for this information. But clearly the initial shown order bar could not belong to this person. I am afraid, the name I´ve got from the seller, wasn´t the right one.

As discussed before, not a medical officer but a military official (Beamter) is more likely.

Regards, Komtur.

On 11/03/2023 at 18:07, Dave Danner said:

... I've no idea where the ribbon bar ended up, but perhaps its owner will appreciate the additions. ...

Thanks very much, because it ends up here.

To be true, I never searched this bar in detail and especially profound for the Hofrat Eduard Trzeciok, because of some daubt, if we are on the right way.

As Rick stated in the first post:

The awards on this Old Style early wartime ribbon bar are

1) Iron Cross 2nd Class on "white black" noncombatant ribbon (3,000 during the war, 10,000 afterwards)

2) Red Eagle Order 4th Class (awarded 27.01.1913 per the final published Prussian Orders List-- which also reveals his missing first name)

3) Crown Order 4th Class (10.10.1910)

4) Saxe-Weimar "GSF3b" Order of the White Falcon-Knight 2nd (pre-1913)

5) 1897 Wilhelm I Centenary Medal

As Dave added we know now:

Trzeciok received permission to wear the GSF3b on 8.9.1911 and permission to wear the Officer's Cross of the Belgian Leopold Order on 8.11.1913. That award didn't make the ribbon bar since by that point Belgium was the enemy.

Besides the Saxon Kriegsverdienstkreuz noted in the 1918 Court and State entry above, he also received later in 1918 the Anhalt Friedrichkreuz am grün-weißen Bande. I also have a note that he received the Württemberg Wilhelmskreuz mit Schwertern, but I can't find my source for that.

To attribute the ribbon bar to the Hofrat with the indescribable name we have to assume, he never updated his ribbon bar with the Saxon, the Anhalt and the Württemberg decoration AND he got his Iron Cross 2nd class on the white ribbon distinctly before these other awards (BTW the Saxon Kriegsverdienstkreuz he got on the 22nd January 1917). This all seems not impossible, but somewhat improbable.

Additionaly how about the possibility, the red ribbon displays the Jerusalemkreuz and we have to search for a navy official? Unfortunately this decoration isn´t listed in the printed sources e.g. Ranglisten and Staatshandbücher.

Best regards,

Komtur.

I was asc by the author Frank Thater to announce his new book with his description seen in #1 here in GMIC.

If this is a wrong place for this kind of advertisement I ask kindly one of the hosts to transfer the thread to its favoured position.

If this place is convenient, it would be pleasent to be "pinned" here.

Thanks in advance, Komtur.

The three-volume reference book is available in German and English.

It is available with either a high-quality printed cardboard cover, or with an embossed black imitation leather cover with book jacket.

The complete work contains more than 1.500 pages of previously unknown facts about the EK 1st Class of 1914.

It is currently the only book which deals in detail with the production of the Iron Crosses in World War I. It also provides scientific evidence of how the Iron Crosses were produced industrially.

It scientifically proves how industrial the production was at that time already, and illustrates an up to now unknown multitude of production variants.

The history of all the suppliers known to the author are treated briefly with a detailed study of their variant frames, core types and attachment systems.

The numerous high quality photographs as well as a quick identification board will help collectors to quickly and reliably identify the different pieces.

Volume I contains important information about the Iron Cross, e.g. history and regulations, award procedures, technical aspects of production, state procurement agencies, costs of procurement and much more.

Volumes II and III deal exclusively with the various designs of the Iron Cross and its packaging.

The book is available only as a set.

 For the edition with high quality printed cardboard cover, the price, including shipping within Germany is 270.- €

For the edition with book jacket and finely embossed imitation leather cover the price is 290.- €.

For order please contact: fthater@t-online.de

An absolute must have for all collectors interested in the German Empire.

On 11/02/2023 at 17:52, VtwinVince said:

Anyone got a bar with multiple Hanseatics?

Yes.

1 hour ago, JohanH said:

Now you have a few more photos of him. 🙂

Great finds! Amazing 😊

Thank you!

I am searching for other portraits of the Swedish Rear Admiral Sten Ankarcrona.

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

Until now, I only could find these: