45 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

This guy would have had to have been either a vet of or on active service with a German unit in 1897 to qualify. ...

For a veteran of the wars from 1864, 1866 and 1870/71 an appropriate cross or medal is missing.

I am not sure, if there was a possibility for a foreigner to serve in voluntary active duty in the German army.

There is a group of eligible recepients of this medal, sometimes lost out of sight: the attendees of the Berlin centenary celebration in 1897.

The list of the high aristocratical participants Verzeichnis der im März in Berlin anwesend gewesenen Allerhöchsten und Höchsten Fürstlichkeiten nebst Gefolge mentioned under position 36. Königlich Niederländischer Generallieutenant Ihrer Majestät der Königin-Regentin der Niederlande Graf du Moncean and 37. Königlich Niederländischer Kapitän zur See P. Zeegers-Beeckens, Adjutant Ihrer Majestät der Königin-Regentin der Niederlande.

It is quite probable, that our guy belongs to the staff of one of the mentioned dutch members of the 1897 celebrations in Berlin.

Regards, Komtur.

34 minutes ago, Graf said:

I agree Nice EK2, however the priced was pushed well above the market value

I paid for mine much less few years ago ...

Unfortunately the price a few years ago doesn´t seem to be the marked value of today 😥

Regards,

Komtur.

Prof. Walther Bruck

I am looking for portraits of Otto zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and for additional information to his life and career.

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

Below are to be seen his listings in

(1) Deutscher Ordensalmanach 1908/9

(2) Staatshandbuch Sachsen-Weimar 1909

(3) Rangliste der Preußischen Armee 1911

Inhaber:

Friedrich Carl Rauch

Sohn des Groß.(herzoglich) Hess.(ischen)

Landgerichtsrats Rauch

Owner:

(name)

son of the grandducal Hessian

district justice offical (name)

Possibly the inofficial medal, remembering the silver wedding of the grandfather (resp. father), is in this context of some interest too:

3 hours ago, dond said:

The bar in the old photo is significantly different the the medal bar shown. 

Yes, indeed.

21 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

... Was Leo von Bernuth reactivated 1914?

... Do I have the right one: Ludwig August Friedrich Leopold „Leo“ von Bernuth (b. 7 April 1851 in Burtscheid by Aachen)? ...

No.

Yes.

Dr. Joseph Ambros (1862-1920)

Oberstabsarzt a. D.

Regierungsrat Wilhelm Arendts (1845-1924)

Vorstand des Münchner Hauptbahnhofes

Dr. Andreas Carl Florschütz, Leibarzt der Herzöge Ernst II. und Alfred von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha nach 1902

Hellmut von Schulz (1878 - 1963)

Fregattenkapitän a. D. der Deutschen Marine

Leo von Bernuth (1851-1944) , Kgl. Pr. Generalmajor a. D.

2 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Did he make Major (looking at his epaulettes)? ...

Yes. Ehrenrangliste Preußen:

It seems to be Ernst Friedrich Werner Schön:

(1) Ancestry

(2) Deutscher Ordensalmanach 1908/9

(3) Liste Kolonialdenkmünze

(4) Preußen Rangliste 1914

(5) Königlich Preußische Ordensliste 1905, 2. Nachtrag

2 hours ago, David M said:

Which one is the MgVM? Is it the last medal?

Yes it is.

I know, that there is a wrong ribbon for the medal on this place of the bar. But because of the extraordinary strange combination of decorations and because of what was to be found under the ribbon, I am quite sure, it is the right medal.

53 minutes ago, dedehansen said:

Hi,

 

he is an Johanniter-Ritter.

 

Regards

 

Andreas

Graf Konrad Finck von Finckenstein

Generaloberarzt Bruno Kaether (1861-1936)

Possibly this is of some help:

Arnhard Graf Klenau Orden in Deutschland und Österreich

7 hours ago, v.Perlet said:

... I haven't seen that kind of arrangement on a medal-bar yet, as to where the MVO is placed last. ...

It is arranged for civil wearing as so called Frackschnalle (tuxedo bar) starting with the highest decoration from the right.

As stated before by waldo

(1) the before golden parts of Bavarian orders were made after 1916 of gilded silver

(2) the widened frame of the lower arm backside was used as a simple identifying sign for gilded orders

(3) the medaillon of the 4th classes of the Bavarian Militärverdienstorden were made of gold until 1916.

Therefore a 4th class of this order had to be produced after 1916 with silver gilded medaillon and with a widened frame of the lower arm backside.

This can be illustrated by the award of a 4th class with crown and swords to Walter Eucken, who got this decoration on 28th of September in 1918. The order on his medal bar is made, as we could expect it.

5 hours ago, v.Perlet said:

... These pictures do show the separate flames clearly, but both crosses are not in gold (especially not the swords and frames) and one is stamped visibly 950. which is a silver marking not a gold marking.

 

They show no attributes of a MVO's 3.Klasse of the 1st grade (gold) and due to the missing (e.g. Generalarzt Dr. Brechtgold) gold plating on the swords, the frame, the crown and even on on the flames - both wouldn't even be MVO's 3.KL of the 2nd grade.

Due to being only in silver, they would both be MVO's 4.Kl. (only being somehow different due to the separate flames). So which content of information or "knowledge" cruising around the internet and diverse forums is actually correct?

 

Meaning I have yet to come across viable sources that would state; An MVO 4Kl. with separate flames is actually an MVO. 3KL. ...

I wouldn´t expect a gold marking on a silver gilded decoration ?

According to the sources (Roth, Erhard: Verleihungen von militärischen Orden und Ehrenzeichen des Königreichs Bayern im Ersten Weltkrieg 1914-1918) Generalarzt Dr. Paul Brecht got a Militärverdienstorden 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern and never another class of this order. There is no doubt, that the medalbar because of the unique combination of orders and medals is the one of Dr. Brecht.

It is typical for the silver gilded German decorations of the late World War, that in this time because of the thin gilding of bad quality the gilding is faded away and seems to be sometimes nearly complete gone. This can be observed especially with the Bavarian Order of Military Merit, but you can see it for others, e.g. the Prussian Royal Houseorder of Hohenzollern, too.

Even if it isn´t to be seen clearly on the pictures, there are some remains of the gilding on the 3rd class on Brechts medal bar.

Regards, Komtur.

17 hours ago, v.Perlet said:

... One thing I noticed in regards to MVO's 3.Kl. is that the frame of the cross-arms - is always in gold, even on those that are basically silver, but gold plated/coated. Whilst mine is clearly not, only the sword and the flames. ...

These are news, I´ve never heard of and I can not remember, to have noticed such a special combination of material with an imperial order in gilded silver made in the late World War. Because of the lack of gold there was the regulation, that every formerly golden part was to be made in gilded silver.

This question was discussed here before: Difference betwenn BMVO3X and BMVO4X

Regards, Komtur.

Dr. Anton Hubert Hambloch (geb. 1871)

Unternehmer und Delegierter der freiwilligen Krankenpflege

It seems to be him indeed.

Staatshandbuch Sachsen 1913:

19 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

... Was he maybe Domherr of both churches?

At least that wasn´t imposible.

Dr. Karl Friedrich Müller