12 hours ago, CRBeery said:

While I am learning, I have this book also. It’s about 1/3 as thick. It is dated October 1900. What is the purpose of this book?

Only the active officers (Rangliste des aktiven Dienststandes) are listed, the Reserve and Landwehr is missing.

In accordance with the Königlich-Preußische Ordensliste 1886 indeed Militair-Intendantur-Rath (Hptm.) Zander b. 5. Armee-Korps got the Crown-Order 3rd class on 13th of September 1882.

But unfortunately he is no more listed in the Königlich-Preußische Ordensliste 1895, so he must have died in between. Therefore because of the creation of the Prussian Red Cross Medal in 1898 he can not be the one, you are searching for.

Regards, Komtur.

On 21/03/2023 at 04:47, CRBeery said:

I am seeing this type of combination in “Justice Advisors” in Garde units. ...

Something like that is quite possible. It looks like a military official (Militärbeamter), not necessarily justice and Garde, it could be any other kind of so called Intendanturbeamter and any other kind of unit. These military officials were the typical group for the rare awards of prussian orders on the white ribbon with black stripes.

Additionly these persons in 1871 got the Kriegsdenkmünze für Nichtkämpfer on the equivalent ribbon. If they with there units took part on combats, they were entitlet for the corresponding clasps. If the miniatur medal has the inscription Dem siegreichen Heere (I can´t see that for sure) it is the combatant version and for the discussed case the wrong medal. The combination of a combatant medal with the non-combatand-ribbon is not possible, but this mistake happend with miniatures sometimes because of the necessarily private purchase.

It is not unlikely, to track this combination down to one person. I would check Prussian rank lists from about 1890 to 1900 in the first part Armee-Eintheilung, where you can find these persons for the Armee-Corps and the Divisionen.

Regards, Komtur.

1 hour ago, Dave Danner said:

I would imagine the EK2w was awarded relatively early in the war, say 1915.  (...)

 

This would have entailed tearing up his pre-war ribbon bar, adding the EK2w and likely removing the Belgian order.

 

By 1917, when given the choice of adding additional awards, perhaps rather than tear apart his existing large trapezoidal bar, he had a ribbon bar made with the now more in-style shorter ribbons. ...

That seems to be consistant.

But if there is no mistake in this source and the editorial deadline was as usual in the beginning of the year, according to the 1916 versus 1918 edition of the Rang- und Quartierliste der Beamten der Militärverwaltung in Siekmann´s Taschen-Kalender für Beamte der Militärverwaltung Trzeciok got his Iron Cross at the earliest in the course of the year 1916:

On 10/03/2023 at 11:35, Stabsarzt Ia said:

Zacharias-Langhans, Dr. Gotthard war 1915 /1916 Marine-Oberassistenzarzt Türkisches Marine-Lazarett Taşkışla und Bosporus-Anatolisches Krankenhaus, EK II Juni 1915, Hamburgische Hanseaten Kreuz 31.1.1916 ...

Thank you for this information. But clearly the initial shown order bar could not belong to this person. I am afraid, the name I´ve got from the seller, wasn´t the right one.

As discussed before, not a medical officer but a military official (Beamter) is more likely.

Regards, Komtur.

On 11/03/2023 at 18:07, Dave Danner said:

... I've no idea where the ribbon bar ended up, but perhaps its owner will appreciate the additions. ...

Thanks very much, because it ends up here.

To be true, I never searched this bar in detail and especially profound for the Hofrat Eduard Trzeciok, because of some daubt, if we are on the right way.

As Rick stated in the first post:

The awards on this Old Style early wartime ribbon bar are

1) Iron Cross 2nd Class on "white black" noncombatant ribbon (3,000 during the war, 10,000 afterwards)

2) Red Eagle Order 4th Class (awarded 27.01.1913 per the final published Prussian Orders List-- which also reveals his missing first name)

3) Crown Order 4th Class (10.10.1910)

4) Saxe-Weimar "GSF3b" Order of the White Falcon-Knight 2nd (pre-1913)

5) 1897 Wilhelm I Centenary Medal

As Dave added we know now:

Trzeciok received permission to wear the GSF3b on 8.9.1911 and permission to wear the Officer's Cross of the Belgian Leopold Order on 8.11.1913. That award didn't make the ribbon bar since by that point Belgium was the enemy.

Besides the Saxon Kriegsverdienstkreuz noted in the 1918 Court and State entry above, he also received later in 1918 the Anhalt Friedrichkreuz am grün-weißen Bande. I also have a note that he received the Württemberg Wilhelmskreuz mit Schwertern, but I can't find my source for that.

To attribute the ribbon bar to the Hofrat with the indescribable name we have to assume, he never updated his ribbon bar with the Saxon, the Anhalt and the Württemberg decoration AND he got his Iron Cross 2nd class on the white ribbon distinctly before these other awards (BTW the Saxon Kriegsverdienstkreuz he got on the 22nd January 1917). This all seems not impossible, but somewhat improbable.

Additionaly how about the possibility, the red ribbon displays the Jerusalemkreuz and we have to search for a navy official? Unfortunately this decoration isn´t listed in the printed sources e.g. Ranglisten and Staatshandbücher.

Best regards,

Komtur.

I was asc by the author Frank Thater to announce his new book with his description seen in #1 here in GMIC.

If this is a wrong place for this kind of advertisement I ask kindly one of the hosts to transfer the thread to its favoured position.

If this place is convenient, it would be pleasent to be "pinned" here.

Thanks in advance, Komtur.

The three-volume reference book is available in German and English.

It is available with either a high-quality printed cardboard cover, or with an embossed black imitation leather cover with book jacket.

The complete work contains more than 1.500 pages of previously unknown facts about the EK 1st Class of 1914.

It is currently the only book which deals in detail with the production of the Iron Crosses in World War I. It also provides scientific evidence of how the Iron Crosses were produced industrially.

It scientifically proves how industrial the production was at that time already, and illustrates an up to now unknown multitude of production variants.

The history of all the suppliers known to the author are treated briefly with a detailed study of their variant frames, core types and attachment systems.

The numerous high quality photographs as well as a quick identification board will help collectors to quickly and reliably identify the different pieces.

Volume I contains important information about the Iron Cross, e.g. history and regulations, award procedures, technical aspects of production, state procurement agencies, costs of procurement and much more.

Volumes II and III deal exclusively with the various designs of the Iron Cross and its packaging.

The book is available only as a set.

 For the edition with high quality printed cardboard cover, the price, including shipping within Germany is 270.- €

For the edition with book jacket and finely embossed imitation leather cover the price is 290.- €.

For order please contact: fthater@t-online.de

An absolute must have for all collectors interested in the German Empire.

On 11/02/2023 at 17:52, VtwinVince said:

Anyone got a bar with multiple Hanseatics?

Yes.

1 hour ago, JohanH said:

Now you have a few more photos of him. 🙂

Great finds! Amazing 😊

Thank you!

I am searching for other portraits of the Swedish Rear Admiral Sten Ankarcrona.

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

Until now, I only could find these:

45 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

This guy would have had to have been either a vet of or on active service with a German unit in 1897 to qualify. ...

For a veteran of the wars from 1864, 1866 and 1870/71 an appropriate cross or medal is missing.

I am not sure, if there was a possibility for a foreigner to serve in voluntary active duty in the German army.

There is a group of eligible recepients of this medal, sometimes lost out of sight: the attendees of the Berlin centenary celebration in 1897.

The list of the high aristocratical participants Verzeichnis der im März in Berlin anwesend gewesenen Allerhöchsten und Höchsten Fürstlichkeiten nebst Gefolge mentioned under position 36. Königlich Niederländischer Generallieutenant Ihrer Majestät der Königin-Regentin der Niederlande Graf du Moncean and 37. Königlich Niederländischer Kapitän zur See P. Zeegers-Beeckens, Adjutant Ihrer Majestät der Königin-Regentin der Niederlande.

It is quite probable, that our guy belongs to the staff of one of the mentioned dutch members of the 1897 celebrations in Berlin.

Regards, Komtur.

34 minutes ago, Graf said:

I agree Nice EK2, however the priced was pushed well above the market value

I paid for mine much less few years ago ...

Unfortunately the price a few years ago doesn´t seem to be the marked value of today 😥

Regards,

Komtur.

Prof. Walther Bruck

I am looking for portraits of Otto zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and for additional information to his life and career.

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

Below are to be seen his listings in

(1) Deutscher Ordensalmanach 1908/9

(2) Staatshandbuch Sachsen-Weimar 1909

(3) Rangliste der Preußischen Armee 1911

Inhaber:

Friedrich Carl Rauch

Sohn des Groß.(herzoglich) Hess.(ischen)

Landgerichtsrats Rauch

Owner:

(name)

son of the grandducal Hessian

district justice offical (name)

Possibly the inofficial medal, remembering the silver wedding of the grandfather (resp. father), is in this context of some interest too:

3 hours ago, dond said:

The bar in the old photo is significantly different the the medal bar shown. 

Yes, indeed.

21 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

... Was Leo von Bernuth reactivated 1914?

... Do I have the right one: Ludwig August Friedrich Leopold „Leo“ von Bernuth (b. 7 April 1851 in Burtscheid by Aachen)? ...

No.

Yes.

Dr. Joseph Ambros (1862-1920)

Oberstabsarzt a. D.

Regierungsrat Wilhelm Arendts (1845-1924)

Vorstand des Münchner Hauptbahnhofes

Dr. Andreas Carl Florschütz, Leibarzt der Herzöge Ernst II. und Alfred von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha nach 1902

Hellmut von Schulz (1878 - 1963)

Fregattenkapitän a. D. der Deutschen Marine

Leo von Bernuth (1851-1944) , Kgl. Pr. Generalmajor a. D.

2 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Did he make Major (looking at his epaulettes)? ...

Yes. Ehrenrangliste Preußen:

It seems to be Ernst Friedrich Werner Schön:

(1) Ancestry

(2) Deutscher Ordensalmanach 1908/9

(3) Liste Kolonialdenkmünze

(4) Preußen Rangliste 1914

(5) Königlich Preußische Ordensliste 1905, 2. Nachtrag

2 hours ago, David M said:

Which one is the MgVM? Is it the last medal?

Yes it is.

I know, that there is a wrong ribbon for the medal on this place of the bar. But because of the extraordinary strange combination of decorations and because of what was to be found under the ribbon, I am quite sure, it is the right medal.