Komtur

I just saw that Wild Card got an cased Silver. Maybe he'll post it?

Not cased, not Wild Card, but silver and on a nice pure Hohenzollern-bar:

Here is the back. Can anyone show a pic of a person wearing this cross?

Greatings, Komtur.

I believe in this nice little thread this one is missing:

btw I can?t recognize if the Waldeck Officers cross is with or without X, but I?m certain Daniel knows

Inspekteur Kraftfahrwesen Generalmajor aD Otto Krenzlin (1864-1938)

He's wearing his Turkish War Medal star sideways.

As fast as ever , thank you.

Searching for HOH3X pics for Daniel I only found some portraits copied here But just by chance I found the following General:

In fact I think it may well be Friedrich von Esmarch.

Regards

Glenn

Another case, where orders tell a story . When I wondered: for me unusual the Kombination of relatively low REO3bow and high HOH Komtur with star, I had no clue who it is. But that high ranking House Order of Hohenzollern is the explanation. Esmarch was married with Prinzessin Henriette von Schleswig-Holstein of the House Sonderburg-Augustenburg, she was the aunti of Kaiserin Auguste married with the Kaiser! For his civil and also military merit (he was Generalarzt too) he was only in a rank to get something like a REO3, but as a kind of uncle for the Kaiser he got a high class of the familiy order.

Greetings, Komtur.

I'm not sure which was UP and which was DOWN on the scan I made for my friend yesterday, but I did notice that the scanner could NOT capture the pattern underneath if it was turned one way, but DID get it scanned if turned 90 degrees. I guess it is the shadows on the lines. Try turning yours sideways and see if the pattern that the scanner sees is more the way it is to look at with human eyes.

The picture of my cross is no scan it is a photo. Just by chance we had yesterday a meeting of collectors and compared three of these beauties . No difference except caused by wearing were to be seen in the case of the cross and the crowns. But in case of the needle and the colour of the enamel one was exactly like yours and the other like the one I showed. I suppose it is the question of different finishing by two firms as mentioned above.

... but also Queen Marie of Bavaria, a Prussian princess and the Mother of the famous King Ludvig II, as the "Gro?meisterin des Alpenrosenordens". I never heard of this.

In my holidays in Austria at the hight of 2288 m I found in the Hohenzollernhaus not only refreshment ...

Another one for Rick or for Daniel?

It is only a photocopy and I had to cut the poor fellow in the right size. But everything important is to be seen. As oral information it is a medical person.

For me unusual: The Kombination of relatively low REO3bow and high HOH Komtur with star (rarrrrrrre and one of my favorites!).

Greetings, Komtur.

...the back

In between there was a visit here too

This one and Ricks are in my opinion the typical awarded item of the Berliner M?nze. It was minted there, but the finish was done in another firm (or for the small series produced over 20 years in the Berliner M?nze may be in different firms). That could be the reason for the difference in the enamel.

Also interesting is the combination RAO 4th class with crown and RAO 3rd class with bow. He obviously still wore the 4th class, so that everyone can see, that his 4th class had a crown, right? Or was there a way to signify the crown on the 3rd class somehow? I know none.

However, fantastic photo with the 1st class Red Cross Medal. I have never seen one worn on a uniform before. The ones, i have seen, were awarded to princesses and such.

Often the way of mounting the decorations on the bar is indeed not accordingly to the rules. But in this case it is correct: "Die Dekoration des Rothen Adler-Ordens mit der Krone ist nicht abzulegen, wenn dem Inhaber sp?ter eine h?here Klasse desselben Ordens ohne die Krone verliehen wird." AKO vom 29. Juni 1894 (aus Hoeftmann, Preu?ischer Ordensherold, zweiter Nachtrag von 1900).

Indeed, pics of persons decorated with the Red Cross Medal 1st class are hard to find, so here is another one . But I have seen unfortunately no more. If someone have one, please show it!

Generalstabsarzt der Armee Otto von Schjerning (by the way he is wearing the REO 3 with crown and the REO 2 with oak leaves with the star):

I love you all on this site Thanks magic Rick, and thanks Glenn (who sends me copies of the KWA Stammliste - about 650 pages! - a few weeks ago). You make me happy, because these medical officers are my favorites!

The most interesting decoration for me is in this moment the Red Cross Medal 1st class. As far as I know only about 260 awarded. All decorated persons up to 1913 can be found in the K?niglich Preu?ische Ordensliste. From 1913 to 1918 there is a list in Orden und Ehrenzeichen Nr.26 (August 2003) compiled by Sauerwald from the data of the Deutscher Reichsanzeiger and K?niglich Preu?ischer Staatsanzeiger. As I know him, he did the work more than exact - but there is no information about Schultzen! The Rangliste 1914 shows him with the 2nd class. Schultzen is not the first person not to be found in the mentioned sources. As Bannicke/Tewes discussed in Orden und Ehrenzeichen 37/2005 this could be because of spontaneous awards of the Kaiser in the war where no Beamter was on his side for documentation.

Fine observation Mike! There is somthing odd in this pic and you got the point. There is a difference in his prussian attitude, the correct mounting of all the other decorations and the crooked Nordstern star. Besides this, the Nordstern star for the commander 1st class belongs to the neck cross of this order. I can?t recognize the second and the fourth neck cross, but both seemed not to be the Nordstern . On the other hand I found only pictures of Nordstern knight- and grandcrosses, may be the Komtur is of other style? But that is more than unusual ...

Who can help?

the bar

Hello forumites,

today I got this pic of a person in a general rank with the rare red cross medal 1. class. I have only seen one other foto of a person decorated with this (Generalstabsarzt der Armee von Schjerning). May be this is a high ranking medical officer too?

I believe to recognize:

neckorders

-Preu?en, Kronenorden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern

-?

-W?rttemberg, Friedrichsorden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern

-?

-?sterreich, Ehrenzeichen vom Roten Kreuz, 1. Klasse mit Kriegsdekoration

bar

-Preu?en Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse

-Preu?en, Roter-Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife

-Preu?en, Roter-Adledr-Orden 4. Klasse mit der Krone

-? (Preu?en, Rote Kreuz Medaille 2. Klasse?)

-Preu?en, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz f?r Offiziere

-Deutsches Reich, China-Denkm?nze

-Preu?en, Zentenarmedaille

-Sachsen, Albrechtsorden Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse

-Oldenburg, Friedrich-August-Kreuz 2. Klasse

-Sachsen-Meiningen, Ehrenzeichen f?r Verdienst im Kriege

-Hanseatenkreuz

-? (T?rkei, Liakatmedaille?)

on pin

-Schweden, Nordsternorden Kommandeur 1. Klasse

-Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse

-Oldenburg, Friedrich-August-Kreuz 1. Klasse

-Bayern, Milit?rverdienstorden Offizierskreuz mit Schwertern

-Preu?en, Rote Kreuz Medaille 1. Klasse

Greetings, Komtur.

It weighs 500 Gramm!!!!!

What a brave man to carry this burden

You see me helpless , but something must be wrong. I thought this bar can not be bad, because it belongs to this magnificent group. But then Sauerwald must be wrong ...

... I don?t know what I shall think ...

Sorry, Komtur.

Other by Sauerwald as modern copies described crosses:

COPY

@ Komtur: In your opinion is this ?lberg-Kreuz am Einzelbandspange is real or fake?

Hallo Claudio,

I judged these crosses up to now by the article of Sauerwald in Orden-Militaria-Magazin 92/2000 (S.53 ff):

ORIGINAL

Dear Claudio:

Congratulations on the acquisition of this excellent group! It is one of the nicest groupings that I have seen come on the market in awhile.

I can only agree with SPM. Absolutely marvelous

I?m afraid that all ?lbergkreuze sold in the last years are copies. This is the first original I have seen on the market.

With best regards, Komtur.

Is that the way the L?beck "roll" exists-- as an alphabetical list, written after all awards had been made? Or is that the index to it?

And is whoever has it WORKING ON IT TO PUBLISH IT? These rolls take much too much time and effort to "waste" if somebody else is duplicating the time and effort ALREADY.

Sorry Rick, I can?t answer your question , but I?ll give you a personel message who possibly can.

Greetings, Komtur.