Komtur

Yessss, it must be Emsmann

Thanks Bernd D!

I found him in the Ordensalmanach 1908/09. I?ll post a scan later

Komtur

... more detailed pics of the glitter

Hi gentleman,

As far as I know now after studying the older threads as a new member it is no real challange for you guys to give my new arrived pic a name and career. There is the name written on the foto, but I can only recognize .....mann 1921. Unfortunately I have no marine rank list. But I won?t be lazy and try to give my knowledge of the decorations:

9 Komture

-Prussia 2. class Red Eagle with oak leaves

-Prussia 2. class order of the Crown with X on the ring

-Saxony Komtur order of Albrecht

-Oldenburg order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig Gro?komtur (if the star belongs to this order!)

-Saxon duchies Komtur Saxon-Ernestine houseorder

-Austria 2. class order of the Iron Crown

-Russia 2. class order of St.Anna

-Italy Komtur order of the Crown

-Sweden Komtur Sword order

right chest

-Turkey medal of "Hilal-I Ahmer" (a kind of red cross decoration?)

-Turkey Gallipoli star

medal bar

-Iron Cross 2. class

-Prussia 4. class order of the crown with X

-Prussia Order of the red eagle 4. class with the crown

-Prussia long service cross for 25 year

-?

-?

-?

-?

-Waldeck order of merit 3. class

-Schwarzburg cross of merit 3. class

-?

The star may be the Gro?komtur of the Oldenburg order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig (but normally it is worn on the right chest?)

Iron Cross 1. class

Bavaria order of Military Merit officer cross

(sorry for making mistakes in the english versions of the names of the orders)

I hope you like him too

Komtur.

@GdC26

I?m happy that you got it and I honestly hope that there will be no regrets! I?m looking forward to the detailed pics and the information about weight and dimensions.

greetings Komtur

And now my personel judgment by the Winkler star only by knowing the pictures: I have a good feeling it could be an original and rare item. If you compare the outer circle of the medaillon in both cases you will see from outside to the center perls-line-perls-motto-perls-eagle. On the good known and desribed Wagner stars (and as I know now because of other today sended pictures the H.u.S - Humbert & Sohn - stars too) you will find there perls-line-rope-motte-rope-eagle (look at the pic of the center in my first reply - a Wagner, and I think at WildCard?s star too). There are other distinct similarities between the Winkler star and the fotos I sended. As you may know, there is a set of copies, well made, but with lots of differences to the Wagner/H.uS.-stars. These copies clearly differ in comparison with the Winkler star and the S.F.S. star in the Kunstgewerbemuseum. Look at the pictures!

Copy avers/revers (another one you?ll find in the Thies catalogue 20th auction Dec. 2002 - sold as Copy! As I understand you have the Thies catalogues - if not this one I could post a pic too)

... more detailed

...detailed

... and revers

@Sandro

The pics arrived today and I will post them immediately. There are two problems: first my english is sometimes not sophisticated enough to discuss these special problems. Furthermore I am not allowed to name the source of the pictures. But I?ll tell you the story and hope you?ll understand what I try to say. The pics are from a huge archive. The owner of this archive sends me the fotos, he is the one, who see the star in Stuttgart and judge it as a fake. But interestingly the fotos are made in 1994 by the other person seeing the star in Stuttgart too, who think it?s an original one . The S.F.S. star on this pics is from the collection of the Kunstgewerbemuseum Berlin. Star silver, center gold, 87,5 x 87,5 mm, 75,4 g, engraved S.F.S. (unfortunately in the text to the fotos there is no information where), the laurels are in silver. The quality of the pics is not the best and the limited space here is another problem.

The good news first: I?ll get some pictures of an original S.F.S. star in a few days. So sorry for the bad news: these pictures will be sended by one of the above mentioned experts. Unfortunately he?s the one who characterized the diskussed star as a fake because of his knowledge of one original S.F.S. black eagle order breast star (the one he will send me the pictures). The pictures are sended by the Deutsche Post. I hope with fresh horses.

best wishes

Komtur

@GdC26

Today I talk to a person who saw the star in Stuttgart. He told me that 3 "experts" had 3 different opinions...

One was sure it is an original, one was sure it is a fake and one wasn?t sure at all

He told me too the engraved Number means the owner e.g. his descendents where not obliged to give the order back to the Prussian General-Ordens-Kommission.

There was in the Thies auction in July 2006 a collar of the Red Eagle order with an grandcross of Friedeberg marked S.F.S. and with engraved No 20708. So that would be a good sign for the originality of the black eagle order breast star or a sign of cleverness of the criminals...

Sorry, I know these informations are not really useful

try the front again...

Amazingly there a four stones in front of the castle!?

@saschaw

As you can see there is no maker sign ore plate on the back of this star

According to Peter Sauerwald / Orden und Ehrenzeichen No1 / 1999 the Maker is Samuel Friedeberg und S?hne, Berlin, Unter den Linden 40/42. In 1892 Gebr?der Friedl?nder took over this firm. In my opinion this star looks not bad, but you can find some differences to the well known originals by Wagner & Sohn. The problem will be, to find another Friedeberg-star for comparison.

Another member of the family. A grandpa from about 1850. Unfortunately not enough space for the whole item...