Komtur

October 31, 2019

October 26, 2019

2 hours ago, Gensui said:

How about a MEZ?

Sorry, for missing this. To be true, its the most probable decoration! There were 63 awarded for the war in Südwestafrika, most of them in 1907. These medals were given to low ranking military officials.

October 25, 2019

We can not be sure, what decoration is hidden behind the first ribbon.

A Prussian order on a white ribbon with black stripes is possible, but very scarce. I could only find 17 Crown Order 4th class and 14 Red Eagle Order 4th class on this very special ribbon for the war in Deutsch-Südwestafrika. These decorations were awarded to civil officials (e.g. postofficals), as to be seen for example for the Crown Order 4th class and the year 1906.

Even if the previous described combination is very likely, an Iron Cross 1914 on a white ribbon is not impossible.

October 8, 2019

I have to admit, the discussion regarding the devices on Austrian ribbon bars is to sophisticated for my basic knowledge in this field. So I am not sure, if the group of Dr. Rudolf Mosaner could be of some help :unsure:

October 3, 2019

9 minutes ago, Utgardloki said:

... Seems like this also was possible with the old uniform regarding the Plettenberg picture (does anyone know when this was taken? During Gorlice Tarnow before he received the PlM? Or did they just reuse an old picture of him for these postcards?)

With no WWI decoration at all, it must be a prewar picture of Plettenberg.

October 3, 2019

On 30/09/2019 at 19:43, Utgardloki said:

In this photograph Friedrich August III. is wearing what seems to be a grand cross badge around his neck. Was this just some sort of fashion done by him or was this legitimated through the statutes? ...

This was indeed an interesting diskussion about the special cross the Saxon king is wearing on this portrait.

But I am quite sure, the answer for the initial question is another one.

For officers in some types of the uniform (e.g. field uniforms) it was not allowed or unusual, to wear a sash with it. Therefore for Generals from the rank of Generaloberst upward or royalty in military uniforms of that kind there was no possibility, to wear something around the neck. Undoubtedly because of this painful situation for this group of people it was officially allowed according to the Offiziersbekleidungsvorschrift, to wear grand crosses or 1st classes around the neck. Usualy the last awarded decoration was elected for wearing that way.

Here are some examples:

GdK Freiherr von Bissing: Crown Order 1st class with swords on the ring

GdI Ludendorff: Red Eagle Order 1st class with swords

GdI von Plettenberg: Crown Order 1st class

Generalarzt der Armee von Schjerning: Crown Order 1st class

September 22, 2019

On 21/09/2019 at 18:31, saschaw said:

... the Jubiläumsmedaille on the 3 place medal bar should be worn on the very same ribbon as the 1902 jubilee medal ...

As to be seen here:

September 18, 2019

1 hour ago, FAR 32 said:

Regarding the medallions of this award, I notice three rocks (or ostrich eggs?) laying in the grass in front of the tower. Does anybody know what their significance is, or what they represent?

Unfortunately I have no answer ...

September 18, 2019

3 hours ago, chuck said:

... what period did they make the early crosses? ...

As far as I know the sky with the pink touch is related to the maker Jacob Chr. Petry and the period 1860ies and 1870ies. Therefore this style is typical for the awards with swords of the wars of 1866 and 1870/71.

Note the difference in the colour between the both decorations on the medalbar of member Paris.

September 15, 2019

Early one.

September 7, 2019

Bayern Militär-Verdienstorden 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern:

5. Januar 1918 Generalarzt Dr. Brecht, III. Armeekorps

September 5, 2019

1 hour ago, Alex K said:

... would I be right in assuming that the ribbon would at that time have of a yellow/orange hue than the red currently shown? ...

Yes.

August 19, 2019

7 hours ago, David M said:

I have an entry that on 27-01-1928 L.A.C.O. Müldner von Mülnheim Major a.D. and Referent bei der Generalverwaltung unter Belassung seines Dienstverhältnisses als persönlicher Adjutant des Kronprinzen received the HOH2bXaR

I have him too, but didn´t mention him because of the am Ring. ?

August 18, 2019

3 hours ago, David M said:

wht about during the exile of the emperor?

We could find in the Doorn archive:

HOH2bX

27.1.1924 von Dommes, General á la suite Generalmajor, Potsdam

25.8.1925 Mewes, Flügeladjutanten Major

14.3.1926 von Kleist, Flügeladjutant Oberst

24.12.1927 von Unruh, Generalmajor, Regensburg

27.1.1928 von Sell, Freiherr

HOH2aX

15.6.1928 Graf von Platen-Hallermund, Vizeadmiral und Hofmarschall, Berlin

With a total of 151 persons over all classes to be found and a total of 349 awards declared by the Royal House of Hohenzollern towards German authorities in 134 we can estimate a number of about 10 HOH2a/bX.

Two of them (v. Gontard and Mewes) are to be seen here:

August 18, 2019

Another one on a medal bar.

August 2, 2019

It seems to be a Wagner produced cross in gold. Very rare and nice :beer:

July 10, 2019

14 hours ago, Claudius said:

... I sympathize with the "Qualifikations-Bericht". I don't know what it is suppose to communicate. It almost looks like a letter...to outline his qualifications to the promotions personnel?

The advancement in the German armies follows the principle of seniority and capability. The seniority was well-defined by the date of enlistment as an officer in the army. The capability for the next higher level of rank was judged by the commander of an officer. From the beginning of the 19th century the German armies developed specific regulations who, when and with what content these Qualifkationsberichte had to issue.

For more information about this complex theme I can recommend the book Untersuchungen zur Geschichte des Offizierskorps / Anciennität und Beförderung nach Leistung, Stuttgart 1962.

Regards, Komtur.

July 6, 2019

Walter Eucken

June 28, 2019

On this site about the Crimea War Medal is stated:

Fraudulently named medals to the highly desirable Light Brigade Chargers, the Heavy Brigade, 93rd Foot (Thin Red Line) have been faked with engraved or regimentally impressed naming.

Could someone please show me, how especially the faked regimentally impressed namings look like?

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

over the years - Caveat Emptor !

June 19, 2019

5 hours ago, Utgardloki said:

Here's another bar with two Saxe-Ernestines:

...

Sorry, but this picture from a printed article was not ment for common use ...

Regards, Komtur.

June 18, 2019

This one fits too.

June 15, 2019

The new list with some additions.

RVO nach Nummern.pdf

June 7, 2019

Some additions followed. Unfortunately I can no more add them to the first post. Therefore here the new list:

GCVO 01.05.1902 9 Wellington, 4^th Duke of

GCVO 22.08.1902 20 Laking, Francis Henry

GCVO 25.04.1908 272 Kühnel, Arnold August Blichert

GCVO 21.07.1909 293 Japan, Prince Kuni von

GCVO 24.06.1911 315 Moore, Arthur William

GCVO 04.02.1912 364 Charles, Richard Henry Havelock

GCVO 26.01.1912 361 Rundle, Henry Macleod Leslie

GCVO 23.06.1936 589 Murray, Malcolm

GCVO 12.06.1947 339 Lascelles, Allan

GCVO 02.01.1950 724 Macgeagh, Henry Davies Foster

GCVO 19.06.1966 861 Nasser, Sharif Hussein bin

GCVO 01.01.1976 952 Charteris of Amisfield, Martin Michael Charles

GCVO 13.06.1998 1113 Ford, Edward

KCVO 24.08.1900 ohne Stephen, Alexander Condie

KCVO 00.07.19011 keine namentliche Zuordnung

KCVO 23.07.1901 3 (cross) K3 (star) Bennett, William Henry

KCVO 11.08.1903 52 Fawkes, Wilmot Hawksworth

KCVO 15.06.1905 K102 Egerton, Alfred Mordaunt

KCVO 10.06.1908 K136 Orloff, Prince Vladimir

KCVO 09.11.1908 42 Gildea, James

KCVO 19.06.1911 260 Wodehouse, Edwin Frederick

KCVO 26.09.1913 K273 Robertson, William Robert (1931 Rückgabe nach Aufstieg zum GCVO)

KCVO 03.06.1918 K340 (cross) 340 (star) Worthington, Edward Scott

KCVO 29.07.1925 K464 FitzMaurice, Maurice Swynfen

KCVO 03.06.1931243 Harwood, Ralph Endersby

KCVO 26.09.1931 K526 Hendry, Alexander

KCVO 01.01.1932 K273 Baillie, Albert Victor (zurückgegebene Insignie von W. Robertson)

KCVO 01.01.1932 543 Levita, Cecil Bingham

KCVO 04.06.1934 558 Eliot, Montague Charles

KCVO 19.07.1935 K576 Boyd, Harry Robert

KCVO 11.05.1937 593 Still, George Frederic

KCVO 08.06.1939 K624 Ponsonby, George

KCVO 10.06.1948 K670 Kerr, Howard

KCVO 01.01.1949 K632 (cross) 632 (star) Colles, Ernest Dudley Gordon

KCVO 05.06.1952 701 Barrington-Ward, Victorr Michael

KCVO 20.10.1957 K819 Spender, Percy Claude

KCVO 02.06.1962 K815 Lloyd, Humphrey Clifford

KCVO 10.06.1961 K892 Smallpeice, Basil

KCVO 18.05.1965 952 Oeftering, Heinz Maria

KCVO 14.02.1966 960 Stow, John Montague

KCVO 12.06.1976 1165 Fleming, William Launcelot Scott

KCVO 11.06.1977 1186 Cave, Richard Philipp

CVO 00.07.1901 1 keine namentliche Zuordnung

CVO 11.10.1901 C10 Vanden-Bempde-Johnstone, Alan

CVO 22.08.1902 C40 Hervey, Frederick Alfred John

CVO 11.08.1903 C104 Maxwell, John Grenfell

CVO 10.02.1904 C41 Waller, Stanier

CVO 15.04.1907 C305 Hall, Francis Henry

CVO 10.06.1908 C384 Hamilton of Dalzell, 2nd Baron

CVO 24.06.1909 C483 Harrison, Charles Edward

CVO 29.06.1910 C460 Gilmour, Robert Gordon

CVO 14.06.1912 C540 Ninnis, Belgrave

CVO 25.06.1912 C530 Watson, James Kiero

CVO 07.07.1922 C761 Newport, Alexander Charles William

CVO 14.05.1923 C780 Down, Richard Thornton

CVO 03.06.1925 C740 Gore, St. John Corbet

CVO 16.10.1925 C564 Hope, Herbert Willes Webley

CVO 27.06.1927 C864 Hodgson, Patrick Kirkman

CVO 03.06.1927 C861 Lloyd, Wilford Neville

CVO 06.07.1927 C85 Ingram, Alexander Gordon

CVO 03.06.1931 C484 Russell, Reginald Edmund Maghlin

CVO 02.01.1933 C846 Chitty, Walter Willis

CVO 04.06.1934 C921 Share, Hamnet Holdtich

CVO 11.05.1937 C974 Gibbs, Lancelot Merivale

CVO 01.01.1944 C1065 Bowden, John

CVO 08.06.1950 1129 Howe, Ronald Martin

CVO 01.01.1952 1145 Jones, Oscar Philip

CVO 01.01.1954 C826 Bingley, Robert Albert Glanville

CVO 16.02.1956 1254 McLaughlan, Roy James Philip

CVO 24.10.1971 1765 Edmonds, John Christopher

CVO 01.01.1973 1851 Hill, Ronald John

CVO 15.06.1974 1888 Treby, Leslie Alfred John

CVO 15.06.1996 2487 Parsons, Kenneth William

MVO4 11.05.1896 ohne Hoskyns, Peyton

MVO4 00.08.1901 1 keine namentliche Zuordnung

MVO4 24.12.1901 34 Childs-Clarke, Charles

MVO4 22.08.1902 88 Wyatt, Thomas Henry

MVO4 09.11.1902 104 Harbord, Charles

MVO4 21.04.1903 112 Warren, Herbert Augustus

MVO4 09.10.1903 188 Mundy, Godfrey Harry Brydges

MVO4 05.05.1904 238 Burr, John Leslie

MVO4 01.07.1904 229 Stanley, Victor Albert

MVO4 01.07.1904 308 Gilbert, Friedrich

MVO4 12.08.1904 247 Pasley, Thomas Hamilton Sabine

MVO4 13.07.1905 351 Walsh, George Harry William

MVO4 11.09.1905 21 Tully, Thomas

MVO4 11.03.1906 430 White, Herbert Southey Neville

MVO4 15.03.1906 467 Hume, Charles Vernon

MVO4 05.06.1906 463 Bird, Stanley
MVO4 25.04.1908 227 Vaughan, John Charles Tudor

MVO4 05.04.1909 701 Cameron, John Ewen
MVO4 29.04.1909 698 Williamson, Adolphus Huddlestone

MVO4 19.10.1910 789 Williams, Walter Kent

MVO4 07.01.1911 806 Grant, Robert Sidney Francis

MVO4 12.04.1911 809 Beasley, Francis Adams

MVO4 24.07.1911 866 Waddington, Charles Willoughby

MVO4 17.10.1911 90 Way, Bromley George Vere

MVO4 12.12.1011 887 Bamber, Charles James

MVO4 12.12.1911 903 Creagh, Henry Dopping

MVO4 04.01.1912 877 Fraser, Hugh Joseph

MVO4 10.01.1912 876 Buist, Arthur Hunter

MVO4 04.02.1912 824 Goodenough, William

MVO4 14.06.1912 912 Cuthbertson, Edward Boustead

MVO4 24.04.1914 914 Hodge, Michael Henry

MVO4 22.06.1914 921 Terry, Robert Joseph Atkinson

MVO4 09.07.1915 82 Faviell, Douglas

MVO4 01.11.1915 933 Williamsm, Thomas Christopher Harry

MVO4 15.08.1916 931 Sheppard, Eustace Graham

MVO4 15.08.1916 959 James, Alfred Henry Cotes

MVO4 14.07.1917 1019 Thresher, James Henville

MVO4 02.08.1919 1066 Reyne, Gerard van Rossum

MVO4 21.05.1920 ohne Rhodes, Arthur Tahu Gravenor

MVO4 27.02.1921 595 Poynder, Frederick Sinclair

MVO4 03.06.1922 1137 Nimmo, Frank Hutton

MVO4 07.07.1922 1134 Corson, Eric Reid

MVO4 03.06.1924 1058 Miles, George Edward

MVO4 01.01.1925 1052 Bowes-Lyon, Ronald George

MVO4 10.08.1925 1211 Commander Kenneth Michell

MVO4 27.06.1927 1275 Moore, Norman Cameron

MVO4 07.08.1927 1218 Griffiths, George

MVO4 23.08.1930 1304 Bardwell, William Scott

MVO4 01.01.1931 1313 Fellowes, Edmund Horace
MVO4 10.08.1931 1305 Denison, Edward Conyngham

MVO4 08.08.1932 1307 Woodhall, Eric Langton

MVO4 21.11.1934 1330 Quill, Raymond Humphery

MVO4 23.07.1937 1389 Onslow, Richard Francis John

MVO4 08.06.1939 536 Birdwood, Christopher Bromhaed

MVO4 24.06.1943 1419 Gault, James Frederick

MVO4 01.01.1945 1450 Stainton, Lewis

MVO4 01.01.1947 1526 Stone, Albert William

MVO4 01.01.1952 1557 Ratcliffe, Egbert Edwin

MVO4 31.12.1983 2845 Gost, Leonard John

MVO5 28.05.1901 ohne Clarke, Edward Stanley

MVO5 00.10.1901 1 keine namentliche Zuordnung

MVO5 11.10.1901 5 Stirn, Rudolph Adam

MVO5 09.11.1902 ohne Brett, Maurice Vyner Balliol

MVO5 11.08.1903 44 Fitzhugh, Terrick Charles

MVO5 12.12.1911 428 Jones, Frederick Theodore

MVO5 04.02.1912 375 Green, Benjamin Stevens

MVO5 22.06.1914 439 Sotheby, Herbert George

MVO5 11.10.1920 522 Newmarch, Henry Clarence

MVO5 07.07.1922 529 Fairfield, Samuel

MVO5 07.07.1922 530 Enright, Daniel Patrick Joseph

MVO5 05.08.1922 578 Gordon, David Russell

MVO5 02.06.1923 542 Joist, Henry John Thomas

MVO5 03.06.1931 571 Crouch, Walter George Collingwood

MVO5 03.06.1932 586 Harwood, Captain Robert

MVO5 29.07.1932 589 Barrett, Henry Gulliver

MVO5 11.05.1937 599 Evans, Alfred William

MVO5 30.10.1945 695 Skipworth, Alber

MVO5 01.01.1946 700 Wakeham, Frank

MVO5 10.06.1948 744 Dadd, Frederick James

MVO5 16.07.1956 646 Taylor, Geoffrey Lyndon

MVO5 28.10.1958 732 Rathje, Otto

MVO5 02.06. 1973 723 Aubrey, Ronald Henry

MVO5 01.01.1969 1186 Hawkins, Charles Edward
MVO5 03.06.1978 1487 Schopmann, Edward Victor

Dames of RVO

GCVO 16.06.1990 L.43 Smith, Patricia

CVO 11.05.1937 C1 L Colville, Helen Cynthia
CVO 11.05.1937 C2 L Graham, Helen Violet

CVO 11.05.1937 C4L Watson, Edith Margaret

CVO 30.04.1974 L.82 Armfelt, Wava Kitty

MVO4 11.05.1937 2L Howland, Cicely

MVO4 11.05.1937 4L Davies, Rosina

MVO4 01.01.1966 42L Minto, Sheila Allison

MVO4 25.06.1990 L107 Bjarnadottir, Vigdis

MVO5 01.01.1967 L103 de Rohan, Dolores Malita

MVO5 03.06.1978 L93 Hill, Sonia

June 4, 2019

Many thanks for this very interesting addition. It shows, that there was a notification of the serial number of the order on the Orders Chancellery papers.

As mentioned above, it therefore should be easy for the office staff, to correlate a numbered insignia to a person - if they condescend to do so ...

Kind regards, Komtur.

June 1, 2019

The nice group of the Honorary Member 5th Class of the Royal Victorian Order for the station master at Homburg v. d. H. Rudolph Stirn brought me again to the point, to speculate about the numbering of this order.

Because of the often personalized British decoration, it is possible to relate the numbering of this order in medal groups to a person and a awarding date. More difficult is the situation for Honorary Members, where we need more information by documents, as e. g. we have for Rudolph Stirn.

There already seems to exist lists, where collectors tried to relate these numbers to awarding dates. Unfortunately I was not able to get access to these lists.

Surprisingly it was possible in a relatively short time, to find a few personalized groups of Knights and Members of the Royal Victorian Order by searching the internet. I arranged these by the awarding date. In this way one get a frame work of some use for ranging a numbered order referring its fabrication period. Especially for groups of Honorary Members it can help to identify the owner by using other sources.

Numbers not fitting in the numerical order could be the result of returned and again issued insignia. On the other hand it is not certain, if the Orders Chancellery dispense the decorations always and in consequence by the numerical order of the insignia.

The emission dates of the insignia marked with No. 1 is taken from the book The Royal Victorian Order by Peter Galloway.

I would be glad, if someone could add the still existing lists or single data of other personalized groups of numbered Royal Victorian Orders.

Member versus Honorary Member

GCVO 01.05.1902 9 Wellington, 4^th Duke of

GCVO 12.06.1947 339 Lascelles, Sir Allan

KCVO 00.07.1901 1 no personalization

KCVO 03.06.1931 243 Harwood, Ralph Endersby

KCVO 18.05.1965 952 Oeftering, Heinz Maria

KCVO 11.06.1977 1186 Cave, Richard Philipp

CVO 00.07.1901 1 no personalization

CVO 22.08.1902 C40 Hervey, Frederick Alfred John

CVO 14.06.1912 C540 Ninnis, Belgrave