Alex K

I assume therefore that it was obviously not a military decoration but a civil award. It is very light in weight, aluminium or similar alloy, very similar to many soviet block currency coins of the time

so was that with a full size medal?

Another one in my collection, Imperial EKII mounted on an Austrian STYLE tri-fold ribbon. The ribbon is not the not the normal 40mm width, but the standard Prussian issue width. It does however have all the appearance of being a period mounting, was this common at the time?

regards

Alex K

so the tips would not chip Orders on either side of it?

An interesting possibility, not thought of that, maybe he should have left it as it was and just sewn the awards to the ribbon to stop them jingling about, we will never know. BTW a very interesting thread this has become

regards

Extremely nice cap, I must be honest, those must be the fattest cap-cords I think I've ever seen, I like fat cap cords

regards

Alex K

Hi Carol I, that's the reason for asking, it was obviously no accident, but purposely done, which does seem slightly odd.

regards

Dunno a whole lot about the EKI's, but I'd say

I think screwed

Regards Alex

Hi welcome to the forum, nice cap, I would guess that it is mid weimar but I could be wrong,

Alex

Hi Carol, just out curiosity, any idea how they got bent that way in the first place?

regards

Alex

Hi gentlemen, great info, thanks, I thought that it might have been suspended from a piece of ribbon, but it's obviously a brooch type of fastener

regards

Alex

perfect topic for this discussion. These things can sometimes be accomplished by slightly heating the metal,which as you say would improve the malleability. personally if it could done, I would go ahead and do it.

regards

Hi I found this hanging from a bush!! in East Berlin in the early 1970's, I kid you not, I havn't a clue what it is, does anyone else know??

thanks

Alex

Hi Carol I, somewhat unusual damage, for me I would be inclined to seek expert advice from a jeweller to see if they could be straightened without actually damaging the piece, as looking at the picture the extent to which they would have to be straightened may well take it past it's fracture point, thus breaking the tips of, therefore no point in creating further irreversible damage, in this case I think leave alone.

regards

Alex

Hi Richard, valid and good point, never thought about that option, if they are yours, feel free to do what you want with them, and wait to see if you get condemned.

regards

Alex

One of the things we often ignor as collectors is the cataloging of our collections.

Cheers

Brian

Brian, good point. I personally do and have done so from the very first piece I bought. I catalogue every piece with

1-Date purchased

2-My own reference number

3-full item description, including any damage, or in the case of, heaven forbid! replacement or new ribbon where one did not exist.

4-from where purchased

5-Condition (EF, NEF etc)

6-price paid at the time

I find that it allows me to keep a good eye on my collection, and as time passes, jogs the memory about any piece I have.

regards

Alex

Hi Bifter, It's suprising sometimes how a seemingly innocuous posting can stir passions . but as Brian has pointed out, and I say this as a contributor to this particular thread, people have different opinions and yours is as important to the forum as everyones, it's just that sometimes they may differ, that is the point of a forum where people can express opinions, exchange information, and hopefully create a community of (somewhat like-minded) people with a common interest in military history. It would be a pretty boring forum if someone posted a comment and the whole world just said "Yup I agree"

regards

Alex K

Croix De Guerre

Medal index card

These are not 'things' or 'private possessions', these are the only tangible pieces surviving of a person's life and history.

etui

Good points, all. But, Dick, how does one obtain eternal life? Like it or not, we are NOT the owners of these medals. The only 'owner' is the usually deceased recipient. It was his or her award, and he or she had certain rights. These included the right to reribbon, to modify (for example, screwback to pinback), to use fine enamel or nasty nail polish to repair enamel problems, or to carve their name on the reverse. All these rights lapsed with the death of the only real owner. Thereafter, we have become merely one in a string of custodians (unless Dick's eternal life magic is made public) who have rented (often with a hefty pricetag) the right to host this award for a few years or decades. Whether we see the medal as a short-term investment or a lifetime friend, we have only one right: to recognise that we do not have the right to make permanent changes to the medal and have the solemn duty to research the recipient to whatever extent we can so as to preserve their memory. Then, in a few decades, we pass the medal on to the next custodian in a chain that, we hope, stretches on into the future unless some intervening busy-body vandal mutilates the piece of history that once lay in our hands in and our collection.

Sorry, guys, this is something I feel strongly about. I see this 'hobby' as being 'about' history and a debt to the past and not about crass personal property or easy greedy profits. These are not 'things' or 'private possessions', these are the only tangible pieces surviving of a person's life and history.

Ed, I take your point and fully respect the fact that you have very strong feelings about this issue. These pieces are about history (at least the genuine stuff), and most of us believe that we are custodians and not perpetual owners. I think that most genuine collectors do not have an eye to a quick buck or "Greedy profits". We collect because we enjoy the satisfaction of having these in our possession. I have in my collection many pieces from all areas, British Campaign, Imperial and TR German and from many other European states, which I have purchased many years ago for the price of a McBurger. Some of these now have the value of a small automobile, values have increased considerably. It matters not to me that I could now flog the lot of and "Retire to comfy place in the sun". Thats not why I collect, and I would not part with any piece that I am custodian of, regardless of it's real or perceived market value.

The original point was about restoring or not. I give an example, attached is an eiserne halbemund, made by Godet, badly damaged enamel. Is the damage by recipient wear? who knows, the piece came with it's original etui, and a small piece of original ribbon just long enough to attach to a ribbon bar, the reverse shows no sign of being attached to a uniform, What's it's history? was it ever worn? who knows, it's a nice example of a decoration which at some stage has been damaged in some way. As it has no tangible recipients history to it, it becomes a piece of jewellery, which to take up on a previous comment, do you have it repaired? the whole point of the thread, I decided not to, others may feel differently, or, are you saying that one should only collect items with a provenance which can be researched? if that's the case then most of the items in peoples collection should be consigned to the trashcan as their history could never be determined. just my early hours ramblings.

best regards

Alex K

Hi steve, nice cross, I would say that from the frosting which appears to be on the beading, it may well be TR made, the beading does have a TR look to it also. Nice to see one not made by S & L. L/57 would be Boerger & Co of Berlin.

Thanks for showing us.

regards

Alex

Hi Danny, looked at side by side, you're correct, I don't have a 75 with which to do a one on one comparision.

thanks for the info

regards

Alex

Hi Rick, I think that's the entire point of what I was trying to say, Recipient's decoration, worn or modified by him to suit his own personal preferences, that has genuine history and is best left alone, It LOOKS real, (BTW I personally thinks the one you've posted looks fantastic and has real history attached to it).

The other points you mention,

Point 1 collecting pieces for their historical value and authenticity where money is not the issue, again the appearance of the piece is not important, and is desirable in any condition.

Point 2, investment, where a piece is bought as an example of a decoration, this would tend to favour pieces in mint or prestiegne condition without any damage whatsoever, as to maximise any return, (may be true, may be not, who knows)

I suspect that may collectors fall somewhere between the two. (I do), In the end, as collectors we eventually find the area that we're most comfortable with. The other point I mentioned, perfectly good pieces which were accidentally damaged, I for one would, I think, consider trying to have it restored as the damage is not part of the recipient's or medals' real history, if the inherent value warranted this, providing it could be done sympathetically to the original condition.

just my thoughts

Regards

Alex