Alex K

Hallo KSG

With regards your item, a copy or repair to the clasp on a 1957 EK 1 Version??

I add here pictures of a non vaulted 1957 EK 1 in my possesion it measures 44mm X 44mm and has no apparant maker marks, the front silver frame on the top rim as a "o" which leads me to believe it was original manufactured for a II Class award.

The paint is a powdery Satin black, and very evenly applied to the cross.

I will post a shot of the rear next.

Hi Kevin, spotted this old posting, your EK1 seems to match an early S & L 57, with the early oakleaves and pin arrangement. I have seen others and also have a copy, and if you note, on the top arm, a small circle which comes from the pin that ejects the stamping from the die

Regards

Alex

Slightly off topic, I believe that an RAMC VC winners, was awared the Iron Cross, but this was well before WW2, at around the time of Waterloo if memory serves me well.

I'm?not?sure?about?that?but?a non-combatants ek2?was?awarded?to?a?british?medical?person for medical assistance in the 1870-71 Franco-Prussian war, his details I,m pretty sure have been posted either on this site or the GWF.

Edit, in fact the man's here

http://www.answers.com/topic/royal-army-medical-corps

regards

Alex

I believe that during the war Juncker did make pieces which were just stamped 800, before introducing the 2 stamp mark, I'm sure some expert will correct me if I'm wrong!!

regards

Alex

Hi everyone, some very interesting variations (And beautiful awards!) ,?I?particularly?like?the?pentagonal?style.?Attached?two?of?my?Hungarian?order?of?merit?crosses?which?show?a?more?"Traditional"?style.

Thanks for the most interesting input

regards

Alex

Hi gents sorry I've not replied sooner, I've been computerless, a ghastly experience!! Thanks for the comments, I've noticed on my other tri-fold ribbons that the eyelets are sown within the ribbon fold not outside, similar to the repro ribbon.

BTW are all Austria/Hungarian empire medal issued with tri-fold 40mm ribbons or was the medal awarded with a straight piece and then the recipient had them made into trifolds? I do have a piece of Signum Laudis medal which appears to be authentic but has a more pink colour and is only 30mm wide?

regards

alex

Also worth noting that this is a very early award, sitting on a 3/4 eye Ritterkreuz. Steinhauer Oaks were never subsequently authorised as official awards and would only have been available for a short period between their introduction and the prohibition on retail sales and would therefore be "early"

Hi Gordon, Interesting that you say S & L Oaks were never officially authorised I never realised that as they were authorised for the RK. What, if any reason were they not authorised, as they certainly made them, was it a quality issue as described in your original posting or some other reason?

regards

Alex

Hi, can't tell from this photo, and I'm not a complete RK expert, but it does look good IMO, are there photo's of the reverse? and any markings on the back or ring? It resembles a Neusilber Juncker in which there may be no markings

regards

Alex

Hi must just say that these are fantastic family photo's

regards

Alex

haynau, you're quite right of course, I've got problems with medal identification HEH HEH!

Attached is my Signum Laudis medal, complete with a new ribbon. also indicated is the original ribbon it came with.

Don't ask me why I purchased a replacement ribbon!!?

Queston, the hook and eye arrangement for the two are somewhat different, was there a standard method for these on original decorations or was it down to the individual taylor's preferences etc? I am really interested in the earlier ribbon's details, if this was a common way of sewing trifold ribbons at the time, it would help in identifying more authentic pieces.

thanks

Alex

case inner

Attached is a known fake that eminated from Poland in the 70's.

It has several distinct features to it.

1) It is a one piece stamping of brass/bronze.

2) The beading is rubbish.

3)It has the strangest dates I've seen

4) It has a spurious stamp on the pin of 595

5) It is slightly smaller than an original.

The example shown when obtained in the 70's had a silvered finish, over time however the silver wash has deteriorated to reveal the underlying base metal

It did come in the case- attached, don't know of the cases authenticity.

regards

Alex

Hi haynau, you're right, someone has tried to re-paint the damaged bits, however I have no way of telling if it is new or decades old

regards

Alex

Hi Jim & Kevin, It's interesting to here the views so far that something which is damaged has more personal value than a finely restored piece, It'll remain as it is.

thanks for the input

regards

Alex

Hi gentlemen, 75% of me says leave it alone and the remaining 25% says its a shame and would look better if it was repaired, this was the reason for the questions, I sort of know deep down that some of it's authenticity would be lost and in the end be just a pretty bauble.

At least in this state it has some sort of history to it. I guess it'll remain as it is, and buy a better piece when I spot one

Thanks for the responces

regards

Alex

tony your'e spot on Iv'e just noticed as I scanned it into the PC that there is a swan in front of the initials, great bit of info, thanks, the medal is a Ehrenkreuz Fur Eltern

Alex

Tony I'm not sure as the marking are either poorly defined or a light stamping, I'll post a a picky. I have numerous others but they've already been identified on the list

regards

Alex

case

OOPS sorry the post came out the wrong way round

Hi everyone, the attached TWM made by Godet has unfortunately suffered damage to the enamelling. It comes with the original case and a piece of original ribbon. I don't think that the damage is due to wearing the award, as by my reckoning, it shows no sign of wear on the reverse, and unlikely to come with the original box and ribbon. It has the usual quality shown with Godet awards. If it was damage by wear I could quite happily accept it

Questions

1) Would members ever consider having it re-enamelled proffesionally? (Is that spelt right, it looks funny?)

2) Is the current value of the award sufficient to merit the expense of restoration?

3) if restored, would it have a marked effect on its value- and authenticity?

4) If restoration of the enamelling reduced it's value or authenticity initially, would the value eventually "Catch-up" as these pieces naturally increase in value?. i believe the Painting "Mona Lisa" in the Louvre in Paris was attacked a few years ago and damaged, and subsequently restored, does this also mean that it is now worth less or is now less desirable than before??

5) last question, if it was known that this was a restoration, would it detract from a members desire to aquire or own the piece?

apologies for rambling but to me this is an interesting aspect as to individual thoughts and patterns with regards to repair, restoration, preservation of historically collectible items.

any thought greatly appreciated

regards

Alex

Kevin I do actually keep all my duds for that very reason

regards

Kev excellent, really useful, as I have said in my post that a small piece of the surface finish has come off and there is a grey (War metal?) finish underneath and explain why it feels lighter, I'll try to locate the book, and check the dimensions of mine, maybe the other forums are wrong after all!! better dig it out of the dustbin!

regards

Alex

Hi Paul, there are cheaper versions out there, the prices on that site are on the higher side

regards

Alex

Hi Paul, there are cheaper versions out there, the prices on that site are on the higher side

regards

Alex

Hi kev, thanks for the info. Its interesting that you say there was a silver/silvered version, I always assumed that genuine examples had the "Brass" look. The surface bubbling I've seen on other decorations, mostly later pieces where the finish reacts over time with the base metal used for the award. It does feel lighter in weight than I would imagine a bronze version to weigh, Perhaps I should keep an open mind as to its authenticity until proven one way or another

regards

Alex

Wilco is quite correct, The LDO issued instructions to the manufacturers that the EK was to be manufactured to the original concept of the award, (1813) and that the only permitted material that could be used was iron for the core, hence Eiserne kreuz. It should be remembered that the LDO was only concerned with the manufacture of PRIVATE PURCHASE awards, these were in effect, copies which could be purchased by the medal recipients as additional pieces for those who could prove entitlement to them, and therefore were not officially sanctioned by the Reich Chancellery who issued original awards. The situation becomes slightly more confusing because after the edict was issued, manufacturers who had stocks of medals produced before that time (And this applies more to the RK) were ordered to hand over their stock of finished medals to the reich chancellery. It is therefore possible that awards of medals after this time could be of non iron cores and non silver frames as the chancellerey issued medals that it had in stock.

It can be very confusing. attached is an EK1 with Brass core, I believe made by Wachter & Lange of Ludenshied, as can be seen it is a brass core, and no maker mark

BTW there is no evidence that suggests that they were produced for the Kreigsmarine so that their medals would not rust in a salty atmosphere.

regards

Alex