bob lembke

2nd left and 2nd right both have protruding ears, as I do (when I was a kid my mother used to tape them to the side of my head to get them to lay more against the skull, didn't work), but the guy on the right has ears that flare out at the top, but are closer in at the bottom, just less ear there, which matches the photos at the top. 2nd left has ears that stick out about the same amount at the top and bottom. Also, 2nd right seems to have a bit smaller mouth corner to corner, matching the mouth in the top photos, 2nd left has a small mouth, but not quite as much. Bob

As I have periodically mentioned in posts, my paternal grand-father, Heinrich Fuchs, was able to rise from a cow-poop shoveling peasant to a private and then an Unteroffizier in the Fuss=Artillerie, and then a Feuerwerk=Offizier, and when the war broke out, he was appointed the Id of the Generalkommando of the III. Reservekorps, in other words he was the head of one of the four sub-sections of the I. Sektion or Generalstab Sektion, the Sektion responsible for the supply of infantry and artillery ammunition to the army corps. (This story is interesting as a sociological study, an example of considerable social advancement in what seems to have been a fairly rigid society, Heinrich rising from peasant to a Major a. D., a member of the Berlin Stock Exchange, a gentleman farmer, and the manager of the Berlin stockyard, an enormous enterprise.) Trying to learn more about the structure of the Generalkommando, I just bought a book on German e-Bay, Bronsart von Schellendorff, Der Dienst des Generalstabes, Dritte Auflage, neu bearbeitet von Meckel, Oberst und Abteilungschef im grossen Generalstabe, Berlin, 1893, Ernst Siegfried Mittler und Sohn, 433 Seiten. In other words, this is the third edition, revised by Colonel Meckel of the Great General Staff; the first and second editions came out in the 1870's and 1880's under Bronsart von Schellendorff, who possibly had passed away by the 1890's. There was an Oberst Bronsart von Schellendorff serving in Turkey in 1914-15, perhaps a son. Skimming through the book, I find a detailed description of the Generalkommando of an army corps on pp. 93-94, but it dates from 1828. The book also makes a strong distinction between the Generalkommando in peace and in war. This description has the Generalkommando composed only of a Sektion I and a Sektion II. Would anyone know if the further two sections were added to the peace-time establishment at sometime between 1828 and 1914, or were the further two sections added to the Generalkommando in time of war (one could argue that an army corps, especially a reserve army corps, may not have needed an organization to handle ammunition supply in peacetime). I now gather that there were two top Generalstab officers in an army corps, a Chef der Generalstab up there with the army corps commander, and also the head of the first sub-section of the 1st section of the Generalkommando, I believe known as 1. Generalstabs=Offizier of the Ia or operations sub-section of the Generalstab Sektion. I am assuming that the entire Generalkommando of four sections reported to the Chef der Generalstab, and the critical Ia operations sub-section of the I. Generalstab Sektion reported to the 1. Generalstaboffizier. Do I have the above right? What was the German term for the "sub-sections" of I. Sektion? Any good source for such questions come to mind? A couple of years ago a stellar member of the resident Guild of Research Gnomes gave me valuable information on Heinrich as an Oberfeuerwerker in 1. Garde=Fuss=Artillerie and later about a fascinating episode in his career as a Feuerwerk=Offizier, the latter from a book about the Feuerwerker branch which I gather is a book of the type often called an Ehrenbuch, which came out about various branches of service in the 1920's and 1930's. I am in the middle of a re-structuring and re-organizing of my files, and for the moment cannot readily put my hand on my scan and photocopy of an article that Heinrich wrote for the Ehrenbuch; I moved the scan at some time to a different folder and I am presently searching for it. I would love to get a copy of that book, as I am now studying the Feuerwerk=Offiziere that served in Turkey in WW I, but my searches in abebooks, ZVAB, and the catalogs of the German National Libraries have not unearthed the citation. Does anyone have the title of that book. The "Gnome" told me that the book was about 1500 pages long. Bob Lembke

Front row, second from the right, I think. The ears are almost like fingerprints. The guy's ears stick out a good deal, and are a lot broader at the top, and have a prominent "ear-hole" (for want of a better word). Unfortunately in the group picture you do not have a perfect picture of the ear. One could say that the guy in the front row, third from the right, is a candidate, but "our" guy has a rather small mouth, obvious on all of his photos, whereas the third from right guy has a longer mouth. Otherwise on "overall" look the two (second and third from the right) each might be the guy. Just looking generally at who looks like whom often doesn't work; especially as dear old WW I really seemed to wear a lot of guys down, they changed a lot. Overall the first two pictures, probably not far apart in time, overall look quite different. I have a photo of about 20-25 men of my father's (then) battalion, and not one but two seem to be my father, but the picture was sent to my father by his budddies, and I don't think he was in the area at that time, based on other factors. Bob Lembke

Hardy; Great thread! just saw it. As I browse thru my sources I collect mention of the "infantry gun" batteries, but I am not sure what I will do with the information. Late in the war most German frontline infantry regiments seemed to have one or even two "accompaning battery" (ies), either one of the specially formed and designated ones, like Batterie 218, or a field-gun battery from a regular field artillery unit assigned to this role. Usually they used 77 mm field guns, sometimes modified for this role, occasionally 105 mm light howitzers, and at least once heavily modified Russian 76.4 mm parapet guns. Another development in this area was the order for field gun batteries near the front line to select one of their field guns, conceal it especially well, and order that it not participate in routine fire missions, but be reserved, concealed, for "emergencies", which I think would usually be a major tank attack. It does seem that such a battery, if they were able to "keep their cool", could often really tear up a major tank attack. My father was detailed to a training course, and they practiced MG firing from moving captured Brit tanks for a week. Then they would be gathered and the hits on targets would be discussed, one guy would get 3 hits for 1000 rounds, the next guy 4 hits, etc. The men assumed that they were going to be detailed to the Beutepanzer as tank crew. After a week the men were called together, and an officer said that they were not going to crew tanks, but rather fight them. They wanted to convince the men that a moving tank was a miserable gun platform. Then they trained in fighting tanks with geballtne Ladnung, seven "potato masher" warheads wired together with one fuze/handle. T he goal was to drop the charge into a tank thru a hatch left open due to the 140 degree temperature inside. Pop did not tell me he had attempted this himself, but said that one guy in the detachment was able to knock out three Brit tanks in two days in this fashion. (I hope he got his EK I!) He hid in a shell hole, waited for the tanks to pass, and then ran up behind a tank with an open hatch and grabbed the tread and let it pull him up to the top of the tank, toss in the charge, and hop off. I was sceptical about this, but I examined a Mark V at the Imperial War Museum and it looked like the maneuver was possible, without losing fingers. Hardy, sorry to hijack your great thread with that weakly related story, but I hope that it was interesting. Bob Lembke

Komtur; If you find out who the curassier officer is, or even get a short list, say the 5 or 6 higher-ranking officers of the regiment who survived the war, there will be many ways to figure out who his father or father-in-law is. Finding out the regiment will quickly narrow the search from 80 million people to, say, 20. Gruss aus Philadelphia, Bob

The photographer's mark (the two photos are from the same wedding, yes?) on Joe's photo should give the town nearest the wedding, the wedding seems to be at the family home, there were not that many curassier regiments; put all that together and you probably have the regiment, and we easily can come up with a very limited number of senior officers. I have a bunch of Ranglisten, including the 1914-1918 Ehrenrangliste, if you guys don't, and will be happy to help if useful. Joe, do you have the town of the photographer? Bob Lembke

Very, very interesting and useful, Bernhard. I had guessed that he would have been the von Kaltenborn-Stachau that served at Gallipoli, but then I assumed that he had shipped out to Africa in 1914 and could not have done both. But now it seems that he fought at Gallipoli in 1915 and then shipped out to Africa in 1916, getting seriously sick in both unhealthy enviroments. And you were even kind enough to provide the precious first name. Would you be able to recall the books in which his service in Turkey was mentioned? There is so very little on the German service there. I have heard that there may be an international effort to study the Gallipoli campaign, but I have little concrete information, so I should not post what might only be gossip. Bob

Rick; You had mentioned the "Bund" magazines a couple of years ago. A fascinating (potential) research (no pun intended!) resource. Are you able to read them at all? I have a book about, a useful research tool, but everytime you use it (400 loose pages between the boards), there is a shower of small fragments of browned paper. Fortunately it is actually a common book, but it still is a painful thing to see. I imagine the "Bund" editions were more about the guys who went off on the insane adventures all over later in the war, not the Gallipoli campaign, which was a bit more orderly, not stranding soldiers all over the place. Do you know of sets of the magazines over in Europe? I was just going over a list of German officers serving in Turkey over the years, and I did notice many of the men being described as "Hauptmann xxxxxx yyyyyyy a. D.", although sent by the German Army in the 19th Century in an official capacity. Wallach, in his history of Turkish/German cooperation, went on quite a bit about the negotiations about the compensation for individual officers; I imagine that career-wise taking such a post was a bit of a gamble (especially quickly croaking from one of the many diseases). I don't have any of my father's letters from Turkey, unfortunately, but one of my grand-father's letters from Russia seems to respond to information in a letter from my father in Turkey, and it was about the unhealthy state of things. (As it turned out, they both got malaria in 1915.) Bob Lembke

Hardy; Yes, very interesting. I am a bit of a student of the fighting on HWK, partially due to the use of Flammenwerfer by both sides, and the involvement of Sturm=Batiallon Nr. 5 (Rohr). Of course the Hauptmann von Kaltenborn-Stachau would have to be verified to be the one at Gallipoli (if indeed there was one there). I will look carefully at this. The officer of IR 80 was: Patent des Dienstgrades 28. 11. 1914 Y7y 1918 from the 1918 preuss. Dienstalters=Liste, p. 44, which also said that he retired as Major a. D., from the 1914-18 Ehrenrangliste. So the officer from IR 80 was a Hauptmann in January 1916. But I see nothing about him serving in IR 189, but of course he could have. Bernhard; Thank you. The story of the fighting in Africa is quite epic, and is not given its due, IMHO. If I could come up with a picture of von Kaltenborn-Stachau of IR 80 and/or IR 189 I could see if he wore the "Gallipoli Star". I still have a few more research arrows in my quiver. I am coming up with some interesting pre-war relationships between, at least, the Pionier officers serving at Gallipoli; I am trying to puzzle out how they were selected to be sent there, and I have tentatively identified two senior officers that may have selected the men sent there. All of this will be, one way or another, published in due course. Bob Lembke

Well, not in the 1914 Bavarian or Saxon Ranglisten as a Pionier, Ingenieur, usw. Have to put my thinking cap on. I guess the Fuss=Artillerie officer was studying a language other than Turkish at the seminar in Berlin. Swahili? (sp?) Bob

Many thanks, Rick. I will take a peek in the Bavarian and Saxon Ranglisten (I think that I have at least one on CD, perhaps both), in the case that the guy came from one of those armies. Or, as you suggest, the basic info may be off. Bob

I am studying the German officers who served at Gallipoli. As you may know, it is a difficult topic; most of the German Army records have been destroyed. I have come across an especially confusing question. I thought I might pose it, our resident gurus might find this interesting. Klaus Wolf's book Gallipoli 1915 identifies a "von Kaltenborn-Stachau" as an Oberleutnant who was with the "Pionier=Abteilung Gallipoli" in 1915, and had to return to Germany with cronic intestinal and heart illnesses. (LTC Wolf has been able to work in the Turkish as well as several German archives, he does have Turkish; I do nor know where he got the above information.) The 1914 preuss. Rangliste lists five von Kalternborn-Stachaus: a Hauptmann (27. 1. 1913 Mm) CO of 1. Kompanie, Infanterie=Regiment (8. brandenburgisches) Nr. 64; an Oberleutnant (18. 08. 1912 H6h) of the 8th Kompagnie, Fusilier=Regiment (kurhessisches) Nr. 80; a Leutnant (14. 06. 05.) with the Garde=Grenadier=Regiment Nr. 1, described as being "k. z. Kr. Akad." on 6. 05. 1914; a Leutnant (18. 08. 1906 H6h) from the Lehr=Regiment of the Fuss=Artillerie Schiessschule, but detached to Berlin for a "Seminar fuer orient. Sprachen"; and finally a Reserveoffizier, Leutnant von Kaltenborn-Stachau, of Infanterie=Regiment (2. kurhessisches) Nr. 82 (II. Berlin). "Wait a minute", the guru might say. "None of these officers are Pioniere=Offiziere". But I have found at least one other example of a non-pioneer officer serving with the Pioniere at Gallipoli, an officer of the Fuss=Artillerie. This makes some sense, as it might be expected that a major concern of the pioneers at Gallipoli might be digging in or otherwise helping the heavy coastal artillery at Gallipoli, perhaps repairing shelled batteries. Note that the Leutnant from the Lehr=Regiment was attending a seminar in oriental languages. I have found another pioneer officer that did serve at Gallipoli in 1915 attending the same language seminar in May 1914. (The German military mission was working full-speed in Turkey and at the Dardanelles since mid-1913, taking over the preparation of the defenses from the not surprisingly extremely lethargic Royal Navy.) Given the above, my vote for the officer who served at Gallipoli would be the heavy artillery lieutenant. (Of course, he could have been an officer not in the 1914 preuss. Rangliste, perhaps an officer from Bavaria or Saxony.) The von Kaltenborn-Stachau's seem like quite a military family. Any other clues that might be able to identify the "right" guy? Perhaps his illness and its effect on his further career. Of course Gallipoli was so unhealthy that men could return and recover from malaria or other illnesses and serve usefully later on the West Front. My father only was at Gallipoli briefly but contracted malaria, but served usefully in the West later, my grand-father got malaria in Russia in 1915 and was weakened for the rest of the war, and I know of another Gallipoli pioneer officer who got malaria there and was ill periodically for many years, althouhg he was able to serve into the 1950's. I hope that this is of interest. Pardon my writing some of my post in German terms; that information would be more understandable and precise to anyone with the skills to usefully address this question. Bob Lembke

Hardy; This is an amazing resource. I know (electronically) someone who bought a great number of these in the original paper issues some years ago. I can't imagine what he paid, and of course you can search these quickly. In a short time I was able to find several mentions of my grand-father, even giving me some information on his service as an artillery NCO. But poking about these on-line books raises some questions. Only a minority of the volumes can really be gone thru, at least on-line, for example, a volume for 1904, and I think the first volume (Jan. thru June) of 1893. (Latter great for me; g-f was made an officer in early 1893.) Most or all of these are from the same source, the University of Michigan. These seem to be three classes of volumes. Some can actually be opened and read thru on-line, pages printed off. But this only seem to be a small number. Many others can be searched thru and if there is a hit on a name you see a snippet of the text, say three lines. Finally, there are many that seemingly can't be opened or searched. If a volume is down-loaded, can you then still have a search function? (I suspect not.) But perhaps you can open and read that volume. Can you download to a CD, or only to your hard drive? Why are some able to be opened, and others, perhaps older, cannot? The search facility seems to suggest that now they have OCR schemes that can read Fraktur. I was told several years ago that this was not the case. But this is a tremendous resource. Bob Lembke

Ahh, Haa! I am very fuzzy on uniform stuff, which I know you are expert on. Another (possible) clue. The Unteroffizier's cartridge pouches are visible. Didn't the Pioniere use an older style, which are distinctive, while the infantry had a newer style? Of course, there, one would think that the Landwehr, usw. also would wear older ones of various patterns. I suspect we will never know. Bob

So I gather that you know that Zipper got a minor Turkish award from it being mentioned somewhere, but that generally there is no single place to easily or even with difficulty look up Turkish awards. I think that Turkish officers visiting Germany sometimes handed out Turkish awards, so that sometimes German officers sported them without having been near Turkey. (Not 100% sure here.) For example, the vaunted Hauptmann Rohr of storm-battalion fame sported a "Gallipoli Star", but as far as I know he never got near Turkey. Possibly it was for training Turkish storm troops in Galicia. I knew about the upgrade in rank. They could also use the honorific suffix Bey or Pascha, based on their rank; for example Liman von Sanders signed off on his memiors as Marshall Liman von Sanders Pascha years after the war, and others did also. I think he even got his "von Sanders" from his late wife! Thanks, everyone! Bob

Another clue. The painted backdrop, although overly dramatic, might represent the local countryside, and would be representative of only a few areas in Germany and France; the Bavarian Alps, Saxon "Switzerland", the Vosges. However, it also might suggest a dramatic destination in a studio in an area as flat as a billiards-table. Bob Lembke

At the very beginning of the war, one would think that six Pioniere, one an Unteroffizier, and probably wearing their best (only?) uniform, would, at least in part be wearing black shoulder-straps. However, by their apparent age they probably are Reserve or even Landwehr, and they may have just drawn uniforms, and received what was available. I don't think that any Landsturm were called up in August 1914. Pionier Zug 5. is sort of an "odd" unit designation, but so are many of the Landwehr and Landsturm unit names, at least to me. Bob Lembke

Andy! many thanks! Yes, I had noticed that the younger and older Hildemanns were stationed in the same town at at least one time, although they were serving in different detachments, sort of the thing that a general father could probably engineer, but also a general uncle. I am finding that the Pionier=Offiziere at Gallipoli were generally well-connected and mostly knew each other, a sign that suggests that the posting to Turkey was a desired posting, not something wished on your worst enemy. Thanks for your recent guidance to the book-dealers in Austria and Germany. When I finally got to Nuernberg, that classy dealer was closed (only opens on appointment), but I had already bought so many books that I could not carry more. I almost fell over six times at the Philadelphia airport when I returned. Pardon my ignorance, what is "Bradley"? Bob

Rick; A likely scenario is emerging from the mists of time. The (younger) Zipper, a genuine Hauptmann from 30. 9. 14., comes out to Turkey with his company in July 1915 and promptly falls sick. Having only a minor order from the Turks would not jibe if he led the largest German formation fighting at Gallipoli for a long period of time. Possibly he never made it there. I think on first arriving in Turkey he was immediately taken to the Sultan for an audience. I have heard of 140 course state dinners there; perhaps it was too much. Much younger "younger" Hildemann, actually only a Leutnant (Oberleutnant Patent 18. 10. 15. Ss), is appointed the CO of the company, and his promotion follows soon after. But he was known to my source as the "Hauptmann" in the field, at least over 40 years later, when the source briefly described all this. Rick, to corroborate this, do you know what Turkish decoration(s) Hildemann received, if any? If of higher order than Zipper's order, the above hypothesis is corroborated. Again, thanks for your assistance. Bob

Many thanks, Rick!

Sorry. The copy of Klaus Wolf's Gallipoli 1915 is located in the north-east of the US, at the U. of P., so it is easily borrowed through Borrow Direct, which links about 10 important north-eastern universities, as well as through inter-library loan to many more libraries. I consider it an important book and wanted to make it available. I also engineered getting the library to acquire Muehlmann's book on Gallipoli, although it is more readily available already. Bob

Gentlemen (and Gentle-damsels); I am studying the Pionier=Offiziere that fought at Gallipoli and am finding some tantilizing relationships. However, as you probably know, there is not a lot of information on German forces there, and also I am running out of relevant research materials, especially compared to the wonderful resources some of the Pals possess. So I will post some findings and questions and see if some of our super-gurus will find this interesting. My own efforts and those of a friend that I cooperate with will hopefully lead to more information on this interesting and difficult to research campaign. One source states that a "Hauptmann Hildemann" was the commander of the volunteer Pionier=Kompagnie that fought there. This source was knowledgable but wrote about Gallipoli many years later and made some errors. It seems on the basis of many clues that this was a Pionier=Offizier Hildemann, who according to various Ranglisten was an officer of Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 21 of Mainz, which, interestingly, also seems to be the source of other officers that fought at Gallipoli. According to the 1918 preuss. Dienstalterslist he was Leutnant 22. 3. 10 J, and the Patent=datum as Oberleutnant 18. 10. 15 Ss. (It is of course awkward that he only made Oberleutnant three months after he arrived in Turkey!) He survived the war and retired as a Hauptmann a. D. One clue linking him to other actors is the career of another Hildemann, whose promotion dates were Lt. 9. 4. 77, Oblt. 22. 3. 88, Hptm. 14. 9. 93, Major 13. 9. 99, and Oberstleutnant 10. 4. 06 Dd. In 1911 and 1912 he was in a pioneer staff position working with Oberst Mudra and Gen. d. Inf. Freiherr von der Golz (important decision-makers), and he was a Generalmajor in 1914. There are a variety of links between the two Hildemanns and with other Gallipoli-associated pioneer officers. Was the elder Hildemann the father or uncle of the younger? Anyone have a clue to the pesky first names? However, there was another candidate for the CO of the volunteer Pionier=Kompagnie (A major reason I am interested in this stuff is that my father also served in this unit at Gallipoli, but as a Pionier.), as proposed by Klaus Wolf in his Gallipoli 1915, published last year; a Hauptmann Zipper, who actually was a Hauptmann in 1915 (Hptm. 1. 10. 12 H14h and a company commander in the same Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 21). Now, it is quite possible that both officers were the company commander, the area was very unhealthy and the rate of loss of men due to disease was very high; my father got malaria there. There also seems to have been another Pionier Offizier Zipper, a bit older, who seems to have dissapeared out of my reference materials in the first decade of the century, who seems to have been Leutnant 18. 4. 96, Oberleutnant 15. 9. 04. Any names for the Zippers? Their relationship; brothers? Any clue locating Zipper or Hildemann in Turkey, and to the puzzle of the dual COs? The younger Zipper seems to have survived the war and ended up a Oberleutnant in the Reichsheer. I am an abject medicant waving his overturned cap for an informational handout. Any donations gratefully received. The finished info will probably be published in one or two places eventually, casting a bit more light on this interesting but somewhat unknown campaign, especially from the German/Turkish side. I have engineered getting a major university in the north-west of the US to add Klaus Wolf's Gallipoli 1915 to their collection, so US residents may be able to borrow it via inter-library loan in the US now or very soon. It is in German, but if that does not float your boat there also is a Turkish edition, although I do not know of an example being over here on this side of the Big Pond. Any help gratefully received. Bob Lembke

Just noticed this! I gather that Rackelmann is the guy on the right in the photo of post # 3. Note that the other guy, on the left, is wearing the "Gallipoli Star". (I must crow about a recent coup; I just found material on a Leutnant who both fought in my father's volunteer company at Gallipoli and later was in my father's flamethrower regiment, and there is a fair chance that my father helped train him in FW technology, based on unit assignments.) I'm missing something here, have not easily read all of the Suetterlin on the original document. I gather that he went into a Freikorps aviation unit? Someone mentioned the fighting in the newspaper district in Berlin in January 1919, where my father fought. Anything that he was there, besides the evidence of the photo with the armored car? Chris, have you ever found material on the Potsdam Regiment Freikorps? Bob Lembke

Yes, I think they were known as Deutsches Buecherei Leipzig for almost 100 years, that was their name five years ago when I did a lot with them; they changed their name a couple of years ago; being an old-fashioned kind of guy, I tend to use the old name. Bob

Rick; I have a fair research library, including 20+ Ranglisten, and some other such items, and was poking in my 1918 preuss. Dienstaltersliste and noticed that the description of officers' seniority changed mid-war. From what you said above, I guess that the "powers that be" grew alarmed at the greater and greater number of officers and wanted to decrease the number that had permament rights, benefits, etc. post-war. I guess "ernannt" implies that the holder has been appointed Oberleutnant or whatever, but was not given a Patent" or certificate of permament seniority. Earlier in the war, weren't officers appointed to a rank, and the Patent came later, with a different effective date? Is this sort of stuff, so wonderfully complicated, which makes this stuff so much fun, explained nicely somewhere? In English or German. (French? My wife has some Old Norse.) Many thanks for your labors over the years. Bob Lembke