HeikoGrusdat

...... no Buchholz with CO4 in active service in 1914 rank list... by the way : great bar !!!

There he is again... now I can see the order in total !!! But I heard that these german navy officers got their orders just when they visited Hawaii with their warships... no speacial action , heroism , livesaving... for exemple: Von Heeringen got his one because he drove the boat with the king to the german warship :speechless1:

:jumping: No doubt for me too !!! Thank you so much !!!! :beer:

Woooooooooooooooow thank you so much !!! A second picture with a clasp on the order !!!! Of course .......... not wearing all orders is always a big minefield for us.... Could you please post a scan of Geissler ......... Hope it`s christmas soon - I must get these books !!!!! Again , thank you so much for that answer!!!

Hi Sascha, peace please... Maybe I misinterpreted this sentence of you..... Could you please explain what the Hessenthal und Schreiber says about that... I don`t have one. Maybe we have a big misunderstanding , but in my eyes the point was : can this bar be real in this combination / or why not.... When I go out from this point I must think that the Kriegerverdienstmedaille on the bar is for china - or not? And that was the point - got a bavarian in china MEZ or KrVm ??? And my opinion on that point is clear , founded on everything I have seen and heard during my (imperial collecting) life - of course I am the first one to say "sorry" if I should be wrong... greetings Heiko

the green can be faded out...... but from this picture not 100% to say....... if not it could be a medal for Tirol , would also make sense on that bar...

:violent: yup :violent:

Eieieieiei............ Ulan, your silesian eagle has the ribbon of the Friedrich August medal of Saxony........ :shame:

A picture of the back would be good but as far as I can see there is only one real problem with that bar... the Ludwigskreuz is wrong there... change the Ludwigskreuz against a Third Reich officials DA ( 25 years cross I think...) and then the bar makes sense.... Luitpold medal is ok , ribbon is right... all ribbons are folded in bavarian style , the only thing the soldier has to think about is why he did not get a EK2 and the only thing I have to think about is that a MVK with crown and swords would make more sense for a nco.... but it seems that the medals are hanging on hooks at the back so you can change whatever you want.... :sleep:

next............. the Kriegerverdienstmedaille!!! It is N°4 on your bar.... and it is a small medal as you can see - this small medal in this size was given only to foreigners - we said this some times now... they were given for austrians in ww1 for exemple , natives in the colonies got these "half-sized" things..... Again : THE BAVARIANS IN CHINA WERE NOT FIGHTING THERE AS BAVARIANS BUT AS GERMANS !!!!!!!!! THE SAXONS WERE NO SAXONS BUT GERMANS !!! THE WÜRTTEMBERGERS WERE NO WÜRTTEMBERGERS BUT GERMANS !!! THE BADENER WERE NO BADENERS BUT GERMANS !!!! NOONE FOUGHT IN CHINA IN BAVARIAN OR SAXON UNIFORMS --- NO ONE !!! They were all imperial german soldiers with the uniforms of the Seebataillon , the Ostasiatische Regimenter , the Expeditionskorps.......... they got special tropical uniforms , different for winter and summer , special hats , tschakos and tropical helmets - I collect these things for some days now and I have a lot of picture material I can show you if you want - BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BAVARIAN IN A BAVARIAN UNIFORM IN CHINA !!!! So they were no foreigners and did not get the Kriegerverdienstmedaille !!! NEVER !!! They got the MEZ 2 - Militärehrenzeichen 2.Klasse as all other troops there too !!! Same thing happened some years later in Afrika - Deutsch-Südwestafrika !!! They were all imperial troops , not bavarians or saxons or badeners or whatever.... AND AGAIN THEY GOT THE MEZ2 and not the Kriegerverdienstmedaille !!!! Here you can see a BAVARIAN NATIVE known by name , birth place and all other things with his medals - photo is taken still in Africa He wears FIRST the MEZ 2 !!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you see the different size to your Kriegerverdienstmedaille ? Much bigger ok.... then he has his bavarian native homestate award - the MVK of the MVO of Bavaria !!! and then the DSWA campaign medal.... HE WAS NO BAVARIAN WHILE HE WAS FIGHTING FOR GERMANY - OK ???

Ulan, you are a hard rock.... Talking only about the Centenarmedaille .............. OF COURSE COULD A BAVARIAN WHO FOUGHT DURING THE 70/71 WAR WEAR A CENTENARMEDAILLE BECAUSE IN THIS CASE HE WAS A VETERAN OF THIS WAR AND GOT THE MEDAL IN 1897 AS I SAID BEFORE ----- EVERY VETERAN OF THE FORMER WARS GOT ONE !!! But when a bavarian was a active soldier in the bavarian army in 1897 he would NOT get a Centenarmedaille because he was no prussian at this time , ok ?

Hi Karsten, it is NEVER to late to add informations to old threads - especially when they are as beautiful as this photo !!! :beer:

OK........... I saw it..... there is the Puloulou between the two crossarms , the holy stick of irgendwas..... but then it must be a knight because all other classes are neck order and breast crosses... maybe the clasp is for foreigners ??? But then I have only 4 names to offer..... Geißler - got it 1885 and after that up to 1899 about 10 more orders..... NO da Fonseca-Wollheim - got it 1880 and after that up to 1899 about 10 more orders... NO von Usedom - got it 1879 and after that up to 1899 about thousand more orders..... NOOOOO von Heeringen - got it 1879 and after that a lot of more stuff ..... NO I am missing a name............ any folks from Hawaii here - any order lists ???

the problem is that the picture is in reality exact as blurry as on the scans..... I can`t see more than you it can be that this is a Adjutantenabzeichen.... but I am not shure. But I think we can date the picture after 1907 because the second man from left wears in the middle of his medal bar TWO campaign medals - china and DSWA / colonial medal , not shure about the second one , so after 1907 or after 1912 ..... small steps... ;)

OK........... I don`t believe it is Hawaii............ I went through the complete DOA and through the complete navy lists I have ........ nearly all hawaiin orders (and there were not much...) went to navy officers who made admirals later.... Köster , von Heeringen , Geißler , Usedom , Herbig , Mensing.......they all had much more on the breast than my man , he is no one of the (by me) known Hawaii knights..... here he is - maybe someone knows his face. Around his neck a CO2 ....... all I know , the photo is taken after 1899.... but what about that mysterious clasp on the order............... ok ok , I am quiet..... :cool:

I am very sorry but that 1900 was just said to show that we are talking about germans in china during or after the boxer rebellion 1900/1901 - of course it can be 1905 or 10..... nothing is written on the photo.

I have just seen a picture of the Kamehameha order of Hawaii - that crown would fit even better... but what about this clasp - I can find nothing about it in context with Hawaii orders.... ??? :o

no problem Rick......... it was a try....... what remains is a great photo from great times - with or without names :beer:

Please ............... if you don`t tell me what that order is........... I ............ I am ................... completely............. disrupted I know I have seen this thing some time before but I can`t find it..... I have checked every magazine and every auction catalogue I have , I have checked every dealers website........ NOTHING !!! But I need to find it because it is the key for my next man........ So please - anyone - please .................. it is a cross shaped order it has a very interesting crown I would say the ribbon has stripes like a REO - dark bright dark - but please don`t ask for colours... it must be non-prussian because of the mounting... AND IT HAS A CLASP ON IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I can`t find that cross................. what cross has a clasp on the ribbon ?????????? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP please................ thank you Heiko

and N°5....

N°4

N°3

N°2

let`s give them numbers from left to right... N°1

OK...................... next attempt................ better closeups of all persons and their bars.......... what you can`t see now you will see never because now you see the same on the screen as with the eyes good luck - maybe someone will see a familiar face...