demir

Hello Chris,

Yes according to their catalogue they are a "Fabrik" (Factory).

Can you explain what you mean by saying;

"I am betting the firm that stamped the metal is not the same firm that does the enamle work? They are two seperate jobs,"

Best wishes

Demir

I would like to add another company dealing with strawberry seed, snail and Easter-egg design TWM (source: Konstantin).

Factory Petz & Lorenz, Unterreichenbach Wurttemberg . (Producer and&or seller ?)

Please compare the toughra with Steinhauer and Lück, and Ernst Schneider, Ludenscheid.

The toughra has a fuller body and the fringes are curved more towards the pseudonym

and tughs are shorter and ball tipped finials are smaller.

Regards

Demir

IMHO there are 2 options:

A. a medal designer prepared strawberry seed, snail and Easter-egg design for Ludenscheid companies;

1. Ernst Schneider, Ludenscheid

2, Steinhauer & Lück, Lüdenscheid

3. Friedrich Linden, Lüdensheid

4. Albert Vom Hofe, Lüdensheid

and they produced them using their own pins

B. One of them produced the medal and others sell the medal and have the picture of the medal their catalogues.

They all have strawberry seed, snail and Easter egg obverse but different reverse.

Ernst Schneider, Ludenscheid had a mirror image of the Tughra on the back, sometimes used her logo ES and had a different style pin.

So it is easy to understand Ernst Schneider.

Ernst Schneider, Ludenscheid and Steinhauer & Lück, Lüdenscheid had different pins and therefore they have to be recognised from their pins.

Here

Dear Friends,

In my book I shared with you (pages 84&85 the package of the TWM, but I forgot to show both them them together.

When you only show the package and give dimensions it does not really give the image comparing the Medal. Actually the package is really small.

Here see yourself, enjoy

Demir

Jerome,

We have an objection in our Military History also about the identity. But seeing your photos one can see the resemblance better.

I will post your photos also and see what the outcome is. But I think you are right about the identity.

Lets see what Tosun thinks.

Regrards

Demir

quadrilateral TWM package

Hello Paul,

And here is both of them

The star and crescents position is different.

Square package has golden and the other has silver gilt imprint star and crescents.

Regards

Yes there is a second square one:

dimensions:

width: 71 mm

height: 70 mm

open lid height: 111 mm

Here is the picture:

From my book The Turkish War medal pages 84-85 (From the collections of Engin Huntürk and Enis Pınar)

Here is the Turkish made War Medal and its package together for you to compare.

Although I showed the package in my book in pages 84 and 85, I noticed that I did not show them together.

This package is the quadrilateral one which has the dimensions :

width top: 74 mm

width bottom 55 mm

height lid folded 68 mm

height lid open 95 mm

Enjoy

Demir

Thank you Jerome,

As soon as I shared this information in our Military History Group;

https://www.facebook.com/groups/askeritarih/

I received a question from my dear friend Tosun Saral. Now I see that he already has joined the discussion,

he said that he has been working on this subject for quite a time.

Thanks again for this interesting subject.

Demir

PS: Here is a photo of Col. Galip Bey Commander of Gendarmerie Units of Ottoman Empire in 1909 whom he mentioned in his thread.

Thank you Jerome,

This is an interesting subject and very nicely explained.

Every day I am learning new information from my fellow member friends here and in other forums.

With your permission I would like to use this info and photo in a Turkish Military History Forum quoting your name of course,

I am sure that they will be interested very much.

Regards

Demir

Hi,

It looks OK. Ribbon is new.

As you said a piece is missing which has drum on it.

Demir

Hi,

It is not original medal. This is a German made copy. Originals have a blank space at the reverse just above the date, (here the biggest picture) where the name of the recepient is engraved. If you check this forum you can find pictures of original medals

Regards

Demir

UN Korean Medal, dog tag (12603), Tropic Lightning patch and a note belonging to Staff Sergeant, Medical Corps, Hayrettin Ulsever (1943-13),

Source: Erhan Cifici

Great collection, thank you for sharing and a very HAPPY NEW YEAR

Demir

Not Ottoman.

There is a monogram MS or SM.

A photo of a group of officers during the Independence War (source: Iclal Orses). Uniforms are from the period 1920-24. And rank insignia table (source: Turker Gecer) to compare.

A gendarmerie first lieutenant second from left first row.

2nd row from left: in the middle a silver collar Brigadier, 4th from left: artillery brigadier

Other officers? please try to find their ranks by comparing their collars with the table given.

Ottoman Army / Turkish Republic Army / English

Musir / Maresal / Field Marshal
- ----- / Orgeneral / General 4-star
Birinci Ferik / Korgeneneral / Lieutenant General 3-star
Ferik / Tümgeneral / Major General 2-star
Mirliva / Tuggeneral / Brigadier General 1-star
Miralay / Albay / Colonel
Kaymakam / Yarbay / Lieutenant colonel
Binbası / Binbası / Major
Kolagası / ---- / Senior Captain
Yuzbası / Yuzbası / Captain
Mulazımı Evvel / Ustegmen 2-star / First Lieutenant
Mulazımı Sâni / Tegmen 1-star / Second Lieutenant
Zabit Vekili / Astegmen 1 stripe / Lieutenant NATO code OF-D
Zabit Vekili / Military School Graduates for the first 6 months
Zabit Namzedi ( The student of the Military school who has been sent to the front before the graduation)

Nefer / Er / Private

Demir

Here are some plates by Christopher Flaherty

Most probably NCO Cadets during the years 1933-1940

1 st from left: cavalry major

1 st from right: Infantry Captain, at his right NCO Master Sergeant and in front of both of them a NCO corporal

source: Erhan Cifci, Tosun Saral

Hello Demir,

thanks for the fast reply. Maybe the dedication on the back

helps.

jpg707.jpg

Yes, my friends were right.

The name of the sailor is Ahmed Ibrahim- ICLALIYE (corvette) - Istanbul - Corporal Ibrahim Efendi

Thanks. This photo also helped a friend in my group to solve a puzzle.

He was trying to figure out whether there was something else with the rank insignias.

In this case Corporal insignia has an anchor on top.

Regards

Demir

Also for more on Ottoman Uniforms

please see: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=192244&hilit=t%C3%BCrker

Also for more on Ottoman Uniforms

please see: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=192244&hilit=t%C3%BCrker

Hello,

I Uploaded a file into Document Archive of GMIC about the TURKISH OFFICER and NCO Ranks and corresponding NATO Codes .

Also Ottoman, English and German ranks were written for every rank. Ottoman ranks are in brackets.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/files/file/41-turkish-officer-and-nco-ranks-and-corresponding-nato-codes/

Regards
Demir

Edited by Demir ERMAN

File Name: Turkish Officer and NCO Ranks and corresponding NATO codes

File Submitter: demir

File Submitted: 30 Dec 2012

File Category: European States

TURKISH OFFICER and NCO Ranks and NATO Codes are shown.

Also Ottoman, English and German ranks were written for every rank. Ottoman ranks are in brackets.

Regards

Demir

Edited by Demir ERMAN

Click here to download this file

Hello,

I downloaded a file about the NCO Rank History.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/files/file/40-nco-rank-insignia-used-in-the-turkish-army-since-1876/

Please feel free to correct me when you find the translation of ranks into English is wrong.

Regards

Demir