demir

Hello Gavin,

Unfortunately no. The War Veterans Assc. is trying bu to no avail.

There is no medal for Korea.

regards

demir

Hi,

Here is the translation and picture of the document and the medal of the UN Korea Medal given to the Turkish troops, in this case Senior Captain Artillery Pilot Abdürrezak Otaran:

Corps/detachment: United Nations Korea Turkish Armed Forces, Artillery Battalion, Pilot Officer

Rank: Artillery Pilot, Senior Captain

Name Surname: Abdürrezak Otaran

The officer whose identity is given above has served in Korea under the command of the United Nations from 3 July 1954 until 15 July 1955

and has been given (Korea Duty) rosette with the approval of the United Nations Supreme Command Headquarters.

United Nations Korea Turkish Armed Forces Commander

General Staff Colonel

Hilmi Giray

Seal of the UN Turkish Forces

Signature

Hi,

I found some info about him with the help of the War Veterans Assc.

He was born in Samsun/Turkey (Black Sea coast city) in 1930.

His fathers name is Hakki.

He had been to Korea with the second brigade assigned and came back in 1952.

He was a Staff Sergeant.

Hello,

Yes, I also think it was replaced. This German or Austrian pierced Tougra type Turkish War medals normally have thick pins.

And although design is similar but the finials are a little bit different the original might be like this:

demir

Demir

I was pleased to see the latest addition to your Korean War collection - a unique item that is to be highly prized. Thank you for showing it.

Thank you also for the list of comments about the Turkish soldiers in Korea. I will add it to my file on these men. The information adds appreciably to the significance of the Turkish UN Korea Medal in my collection.

Regards

Brett

Thanks Brett,

I am triying to find out his term of service in Korea.

Best wishes

demir

Nice.

I remember reading somewhere that an American general said the Turks were the best soldiers in Korea.

Here are the opinions of:

"The Turks are the hero of heroes. There is no impossibility for the Turkish Brigade." - General Douglas MacArthur - United Nations Forces Commander in Chief

"The heroic soldiers of a heroic nation, you have saved the Eighth Army and the IX'th Army Crops from encirclement and the 2nd Division from destruction. I came here today to thank you on behalf of the United Nations Army." - General Walton H. Walker, Commander, Eighth Army

"We owe the escape of thousands of United Nations troops out of a certain encirclement to the heroism of the Turkish soldiers. The Turkish soldiers in Korea have added a new and unforgettable page of honor to the customs and legends of heroism of the Turkish nation." - Emanuel Shinwell - U.K. Minister of Defense

"4500 soldiers in the middle of the firing line have known how to create miracle. The sacrifices of the Turks will eternally remain in our minds." - Washington Tribune

"The courageous battles of the Turkish Brigade have created a favorable effect on the whole United Nations Forces." - Time

"The surprise of the Korean battles were not the Chinese but the Turks. It is impossible at this moment to find a word to describe the heroism which the Turks have shown in the battles." - Abent Post

"The Turks have shown in Kunuri a heroism worthy of their glorious history. The Turks have gained the admiration of the whole world through their glorious fighting in the battles." - Figaro

"The Turks who have been known throughout history by their courage and decency, have proved that they have kept these characteristics, in the war which the United Nations undertook in Korea." - Burner - U.S. Congressman

"There is no one left who does not know that the Turks, our valuable allies, are hard warriors and that they have accomplished very great feats at the front." - Claude Pepper, U.S. Senator

"I now understand that the vote I gave in favor of assistance to Turkey was the most fitting vote I gave in my life. Courage, bravery and heroism are the greatest virtues which will sooner or later conquer. In this matter, I know no nation superior to the Turks." - Rose - U.S. Senator

"While the Turks were for a long time fighting against the enemy and dying, the British and Americans were withdrawing. The Turks, who were out of ammunition, affixed their bayonets and attacked the enemy and there ensued a terrible hand to hand combat. The Turks succeeded in withdrawing by continuous combat and by carrying their injured comrades on their backs. They paraded at Pyongyang with their heads held high." - G.G. Martin - British Lieutenant General

"The Turkish forces have shown success above that expected in the battles they gave in Korea." - General Collings - Commander US Army

"The military situation in Korea is being followed with concern by the whole American public. But in these concerned days, the heroism shown by the Turks has given hope to the American nation. It has inculeated them with courage. The American public fully appreciates the value of the services rendered by the Turkish Brigade and knows that because of them the Eighth American Army could withdraw without disarray. The American public understands that the United Nations Forces in Korea were saved from encirclement and from falling in to the hands of the communists by the heroism shown by the Turks."

demir

Hi,

Here is the silver bracelet (tag) made in Germany, for Mr. Nevzat Tanertan who was in Korea, which I bought yesterday.

Obverse: Miniature Emaille Tropic Ligtning for serving under the USA 25th Infantry Division, Emaille Northern Star for the Turkish Brigade and Emaille Turkish Flag fixed on the silver bracelet and also left side of the Northern Star written numbers "949 149" ( I think his enrollment no) and right side of the Northern Star the word "Korea".

Reverse: Germany, silver, and the name Nevzat Tanertan

Cheers

demir

PS: And I am wearing it now !

What an interesting piece Demir, thanks for sharing!

Were these bracelets "official" items or were they privately commissioned pieces? Either way, a wonderful piece with a lot of personal history attached to it.

Gavin

Thanks Gavin,

Turkish Government did not even award a medal for the Korean war. This is a privately commissioned bracelet from a jeweller.

Regards

demir

Hi,

Here is the silver bracelet (tag) made in Germany, of Mr. Nevzat Tanertan who was in Korea, which I bought yesterday.

Obverse: Miniature Emaille Tropic Ligtning for serving under the USA 25th Infantry Division, Emaille Northern Star for the Turkish Brigade and Emaille Turkish Flag fixed on the silver bracelet and also left side of the Northern Star written numbers "949 149" ( I think his enrollment no) and right side of the Northern Star the word "Korea".

Reverse: Germany, silver, and the name Nevzat Tanertan

Cheers

demir

PS: And I am wearing it now !

Hello ,

The item which broof is selling in Rarusnet , 2nd Class Medjidie Breast Star , item number 000577 is also a FAKE . He listed it on ebay a while ago too . Now you can see it in Rarusnet web page.

Best Wishes ,

Avsar Ibar

Avsar,

Yes !

So Gentlemen there is no end to this. You believe somebody and what you see next, they are also selling fake.

And there are others who think they can sell anything. (Check my recent thread)

On the other hand are we doing good by showing the points why they are fakes, so that they will produce new ones matching these points also?

Regards

most unbelievable what people do in order to sell, and asking EUR 59,95 for an absurd thing, although they were warned about it.

this guy attaches the reverse of the Osmani Order on a green ribbon and selling it as:

Orden Nadel Abzeichen Türkei um 1900 4cm Fahne Trommel

Order needle badge Turkey in 1900 4cm flag drum

You are bidding on a badge to 1WK.

Silver or silver plate ribbon pin with the system.

Why?

Width 4cm

Please check unbelievable

item 200575349949

Another one

The position of star and crescent and seals, pins etc.

Hi,

This is a 2nd class Mecidi Order.

I think this answers the question

demir

Thank you Demir!

As I'm a former Soviet officer it 's hard to understand Yuzbasi vekili (Acting Captain) rank for me.

It should be the rank between captain and major?

No, It is not a rank.

If there is no captain available, a lieutenant will do the duties of the captain. So he will be acting as a captain although he is a lower rank.

:beer:

And here are the shoulder straps of the Lieutenants.

1. Astegmen - 1 stripe

2. Tegmen - Lieutenant - 1 star

3. Ustegmen - First Lieutenant- 2 star

When you are graduated from the University (Earlier High School) you have to have obligatory Military Duty and after the basic 6 month military training you will have the rank ASTEGMEN. Then after a year TEGMEN (lieutenant) one star. It used to be like this.

Only those who are graduated from the Military School (HARBIYE) will get the rank TEGMEN (lieutenant) immidiately.

Here are the ranks:

demir

(system do not allow for a proper table or I don't know how*)

Ottoman Army / Turkish Republic Army / English

Musir / Maresal / Field Marshal

Birinci Ferik / Orgeneral / General 4-star

Ferik / Korgeneneral / Lieutenant General 3-star

Ferik / Tümgeneral / Major General 2-star

Mirliva / Tuggeneral / Brigadier General 1-star

Miralay / Albay / Colonel

Kaymakam / Yarbay / Lieutenant colonel

Binbası / Binbası / Major

Kolagası / ---- / --------

Yuzbası / Yuzbası / Captain

Mulazımı Evvel / Ustegmen 2-star / First Lieutenant

Mulazımı Sâni / Tegmen 1-star / Lieutenant NATO code OF-1

Zabit Vekili / Astegmen 1 stripe / Lieutenant NATO code OF-D

Nefer / Er / Private

Zabit vekili / Astegmen 1 stripe / Lieutenant NATO code OF-D

Yuzbasi vekili / ------- / Acting Captain

Hi,

İf the word is "kaymakam" or "kaimakam", " kaimmekam" (kay-makam);

it means lieutenant colonel, used as a military title from 1828 untill 1935, then replaced by "YARBAY" .

demir

And the name

So this medal is not an official medal made by the Ottoman Mint and also it is not made during that period ! :angry:

I agree with Tim. Without pics this thread is worthless. With pics it serves as a warning to fellow collectors.

OK, here are the pictures:

Demir, I disagree with your last sentence. While they are not official made originals, they are not fakes. They might though be considered as copies. And yes, I love them too.

I'm not sure if it is good not to show a fake. If you come to conclusion to agree with my point of view it is fake, should others not see as well, to learn from it?

Hi,

I accepted the facts, written by you in this page and your email, that this said medal was a fake one and I am sending it back to the seller and he gladly returned the payment.

I am very pleased that you warned me.Thanks.

But on the other hand, if you are accepting the fact " While they are not official made originals, they are not fakes.They might though be considered as copies. "

just to have some definitions for the words "fake and copy" will you or some other friend from GMIC please tell me;

Why do we post some threads saying that "gentlemen beware, such and such are selling fake Mecidi or Osmani orders or some people are selling UN Korea medals especially hard to find Spanish Columbian troop ones, and start yeling hey guys beware they are selling fake UN Korea medals.

Why don't we also consider them copies not fakes ?

Why some of our friends are returning their TWMs to the vendors after discussing it in this site, why don't they keep them?

If any TWM other then officially made poor looking painted TWMs "are not official made originals, they are not fakes. They might though be considered as copies", why do we complain and send the back?

When a Government issues a medal and produce it in her officially assigned Government Mint and some one makes it and sells it is it fake or a copy?

What is the line betwen original/official medal and a copy or fake or a souvenir for tourists?

Are they called "copy" when it is said by the vendor and a fake if it wasn't said ?

In this case why did we call this medal fake then, why not a copy recent or old.

Is it the name printed on it, may be there was a jeweller/company made one or two TWMs, does anybody know where the BB&Co was?

demir

It comes from the seller I assumed.

Sorry, but I'm sure it is a modern forgery.

Thanks Saschaw,

Taking into consideration your argument and email, I removed the thread and the pictures.

If I find out that the medal was made at the time the other makers produced their own TWMs, I will put the pictures back,

otherwise it means that it is a recent modern forgery as you say and we don't want to see old medals printed with new names on them.

(Please keep in mind I always claimed that ; apart from the TWMs made by the Ottoman Mint, all other maker named or not named TWMs are fake/forgery for me but I love them anyway! )

I have the idea that matters are being mixed. An egg is not an apple, though they take a similar shape.

First of all, the naming Hindenburg Cross, is a nomenclature for 3 cross shapend medals, all issued during the government of the German Predident Paul von Hindenburg. One type for combattants, one for non-combattants and one for widows and next of kin.

The medal was instituted to replace the many semi-official and non-official medals that were issued after the conclusion of the war, to reward all who were participants and/or affected by the war

The Turkish War Medal was of a completely different standing, and not a general token of involvement. Thus, I feel that the TWM is not to be compared to the Hindenburg Cross.

Besides, the Turkish people, being mainly Muslims, would not easily carry a cross-shaped and therefore in origine Christian badge.

Hi,

You are right I misunderstood the question. There is no relation between the Turkish medals and the Hindenburg medal. As you say its shape is cross and would not be a type of a medal the Ottomans might consider to issue. On the other hand Ottoman officers wore the iron cross. So taking in to consideration your thread I can say that Ottomans did not issue a medal resembling the Hindenburg Cross.

:beer:

Thank you, Demir. Do you have a picture of one? Do they come in different grades or orders?

Hi Please check GMIC page : Turkey

Turkish Republic Decorations Not Ottoman by Dave Danner

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15012&st=0&p=146630&hl=+independence%20+medal&fromsearch=1&#entry146630

for the Independence Medal and 3 types given to soldiers and civilians

an for the Turkish War medal pictures and definitions please read mine and other threads in Turkey section.

Regard

demir

Might I ask where this came from? It may be my tired eyes, but I have a bad feeling with it...

Rose is an order jeweller from Germany grand duchy Mecklenburg-Schwerin, in Schwerin.

It came from Germany, Aachen. I sent you an email yesterday for the details.

As I pointed out on my thread there were several makers in this field and some of them were jewellers.

The medal seems authentic to me apart from the makers name on it, but if somebody finds or knows anything else about the authenticy of the medal please inform the community. The problem is there were to many makers in this field and when you see a new name, you try to get it.

demir

I am getting involved in a project. I have tracked down the Austrian, Hungarian, and Bulgarian versions of the post-war Hindenburg Cross; is there a Turkish version? Is it commone or rare?

Hi,

The Turkish War Medal was issued (1.3.1915) during the 1st W.W and it is the equilavent of the Iron Cross.

After that only Independence War medal was issued by Law 66 dated 29.11.1920 it was given to those participated into the indepence war.

demir