demir

Thanks Saschaw,

Taking into consideration your argument and email, I removed the thread and the pictures.

If I find out that the medal was made at the time the other makers produced their own TWMs, I will put the pictures back,

otherwise it means that it is a recent modern forgery as you say and we don't want to see old medals printed with new names on them.

(Please keep in mind I always claimed that ; apart from the TWMs made by the Ottoman Mint, all other maker named or not named TWMs are fake/forgery for me but I love them anyway! )

I would imagine that some must still exist, either in museums or very private collections.

I heard or read somewhere that these were supposed to be passed down to the family members upon the recipient's death and not required to be returned to the government. Any truth to that?

It's a sharp looking medal and the honor to have been one of the few to actually get the award!

Tim

Hello Tim,

Yes thats right, after the recipients death, it passes to the eldest child of the recepient or their eldests.

Regards

:beer:

Hello Demir,

I am wondering; was the name of the recipient actually written in the reverse area, based on the examples that you have seen so far?

Regards,

Dimitris

Hi,

I did not even see the medal itself Makedon.

It is very rare.

Regards

demir

ORDER OF SEVKAT

Order of the Ottoman Chamber of Deputies - 1915 ( http://www.turkishmedals.net/)

Order of the Ottoman Chamber of Deputies (Meclisi Mebusan Azalarina Mahsus Nishan) - This order was awarded in 1915 to members the Ottoman Parliament - the Chamber of Deputies. As such, it was more of a badge of rank than an order per-se, as it was not awarded after that time and did not have award criteria other than membership in the Chamber of Deputies.

Sevkat Nisani (Order of Charity) with jewels.

Sevkat Nisani (Order of Charity) with jewels.

I love these two orders and I would like to share them with you.

explanations are from: http://www.turkishmedals.net/

"The Order of Charity (Shefkat Nishani) -

Instituted in 1878 by "Sultan Abdulhamid II" in three classes, this order was reserved for females. It was given in recognition of charitable work, or as a token of the Sultan's esteem. The following excerpt from the NY Times of July 7, 1902 illustrates an example of the latter: "CONSTANTINOPLE, July 7- United States Minister Leishman, Mrs. Leishman, and their two daughters; Spencer Eddy, Secretary of the United States Legation, and A. A. Gargiulo, interpreter to the Legation, dined at the Yildiz Palace yesterday and were subsequently received in audience by the Sultan.... To Mrs. Leishman (the Sultan) gave the Grand Cordon of the Order of Nichan-I Chefakat, and to the Minister's daughters he presented the decorations of the same order." Badge: A five pointed star in gold, red enameled, with ball finials and a central medallion in gold bearing the tughra of Abdulhamid II. Around the central medallion is a green enameled band with the words "Humanity, Assistance, Patriotism". The badge is suspended from a small red enameled crescent and star. The second and third class badges, and the star of the first class, have faceted rays between the points of the star, and a wreath of laurels with berries in red and green across the rays. The third class is silver, gold and enamels, while the second class is set with jewels. The first class breast star, which is much larger than the other badges, is set with diamonds, and the berries on the laurel wreath are set with rubies rather than enameled. The first class badge does not have rays between the arm, and is worn on a sash in conjunction with the breast star. The second class badge is worn on a neck ribbon, and the third class on a bow ribbon, attached to the clothing with metal prongs on the back of the suspension device.

Some examples of the second and third class badges are known to be set with real diamonds, while others use glass pastes. These variants are jeweler copies, and are often found with European jewelers' marks, or unmarked. Likewise, badges are found in gold, silver gilt, or bronze gilt. There are also variants of the second or third class made by Coro, a well known maker of costume jewelry, which feature a red enameled center medallion with a white enameled surround, and no enamel on the star, as well as floral scrolls between the rays of the stars. While these may have been made as private purchase pieces, they may also have been merely decorative and should be regarded as jewelry, rather than orders.

Ribbon: White with green/red/green stripes toward the edges. "

Hello Tim,

I copied a picture for you from Mr. Metin Erureten's extraordinary book named Ottoman Medals and Orders, Documented History, Istanbul 2001.*

According to the book the " Hamidiye Kruvazoru Humayunu Madalyasi "(medal) is 31.5 mm and 20.3 gr. Regulation Date: 1329 (1913)

Obverse: Sultan V. Mehmed Resad Tugra (Seal)

Reverse: A picture of the cruiser warship Hamidiye over the waves, under the waves the date 1328 and a section to write the name of the recepient below it.

1328 is the date when Hamidiye sailed to Aegean sea, where "single handedly dstrupted enemy naval activity, sank several Greek Warships and commercial vessels." *

It was awarded only to te officers and sailors of Hamidiye. The commander was the war hero Rauf Orbay.

The medal is made of bronze and only 394 were awarded.

Here is the picture from above mentioned book page: 312 *

demir :beer:

Hi Demir

Here's a pic of the back. As you can see it's the English version. The Swedes in Korea got the English version of the UN medal. There never was a special UN medal for the Swedes in Korea or even national Korea medal for that matter, like the Danish Jutlandia or Norwegian Korea medal.

Do you have anything from the hard fighting Turkish force in Korea?

/Kim

Hello Kim,

Please read my recent threads on:

Korean War Turkish Troops outfit and badges : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45822

Turkish Korean War Veterans: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45821

Korean War Medal given to the Turkish Troops by UN, Wondered facts about the Korean War UN Medal given to the Turks: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45819

Regards

demir

Hi,

Here are new fakes by hattersteaclub (previously: abilge99,zolotka, hattersteaclub ) on sale for your inspection:

and " All items come from a family member who worked for NATO in Turkey when Turkey first became a member." Lovely !!

1st class Ottoman Mejidie Order medal German Turkish (160493230687)

2nd class Mejidie Order medal Ottoman German Turkey (160493243376)

Turkish Ottoman Osmanie Nishani Order medal Germany (160493618209)

Turkish Ottoman Osmanie Nishani Order medal Germany 2 (160494029068)

Turkish Ottoman Charity Nishani Order medal Germany red (160494090249)

4th class Ottoman Mejidie Order medal German Turkish (160494137063)

2nd class Mejidie Order medal Ottoman German Turkey 2L (160494546256)

These are very good examples of what we are discussing ! :anmatcat:

Dear Mr. Windu ,

We already explained the characteristics in the above posts , it is very clear . My friend Mr. Joseph , attached very good pictures , an original and a fake together in the same photo which makes the subject to compare more easy and clear...

By the way Mr. Linas already sold his fake order on ebay. ..

Nearly i became guilty by starting this post...

Avsar Ibar

Avsar,

You are a gentleman, thanks for warning te community !

demir

Hello Demir.

I would graciously ask you to remove my name from your "Beware of these sellers" list. I believe it is inappropriate and demeaning. Your choice.

Thank you. Linas

Hi Linas,

Your above request has been fulfilled !

demir

Hello my friends,

Would Mr Avsar or Mr Demir evaluate my breast star as i am eager to make sure it is an original. I purchased it from a dealer in Germany, not from our favourite web site. It is worthy to note that this breast star also has a sash badge with light green stripes which are pre WW1.

Thank you

Murat

Dear Murat,

It is a lovely order.

Dear Josef,

please check what I meant, about aligment of the two layers. Check what Murat has and see what our friend is selling.

demir

Hello Michael.

I appreciate your honest response - even if it is a bit of a critique. Sometimes I need to hear that.

I buy medals from all over the world, so it is impossible for me to be an expert on all. That is why I turn to THIS Forum for knowledge - always asking the same questions, because all are always relevant.

As it regards to helping me write my descriptions, absolutely! Is there something wrong with that? I want expertise, so I turn to the GMIC membership for help. And I always acknowledge my assistance from this Forum, even in adding the Forum's website address to attract more collectors to the GMIC. I do not believe I am doing a disservice to the GMIC - quite the opposite.

But I DO understand your comments and I appreciate your candor.

As for the lack of bookstores, I honestly don't recall that. If I said that, I retract it. Most of my research is on the internet. There are MANY great sites - even for this Breast Star. I saw MANY photos of this Star and they looked VERY similar to mine. Thus, I made the simple deduction that mine is authentic. Did I make an error? I hope not, but others believe I did.

So where do we go from here? Well, I plan on continuing to reach out to the GMIC membership in assisting in my research. If some members are "turned off" by my requests for info, I understand and accept this hesitance. But to me there is no better source - which is a compliment to you, to the other members, and to the creators of this Forum.

Lastly, for those wondering "What is this guy up to?" - I am just trying to make an honest living by buying and selling medals I believe people will be interested in. I may not always get it right (and I "fix" that to the extent possible), but I always try to be as honest and forthright as possible. Just look at ALL the feedback comments I have. I have clients who have been buying from me for 10 years, and keep coming back for more. I believe I am a good guy who tries to offer a wide variety of medals that are of interest to all kinds of different people.

In closing, I again want to thank you for your analysis of me. I believe it is fair and balanced. I though hope my explanation above serves to calm nerves of those participating in this thread. But I know that you can never satisfy everone all the time.

Take care. Linas

Dear Sir,

Lets cut it short.

If you give it free what you are selling now I will not get it......

demir

Dear Linas,as i wrote in personal conversation, IMHO your stars corpus (body) is cast and not made of pierced

elements that are later assembled. I own such typ of copy (GO-Star) myself, that i once bought as declared copy. I tried now several times to make pictures of an original and the copy as comparism but i failed with the GMIC-Upload-Limit (110 k).

So the pictures i show now won't be significant enough.

regards

Josef

Hello Josef,

They are good enough to get an idea.

There is another very easy way to understand which is real and which is not:

The real Mecidi Order first and second class have two layer rays on top of each other and have crescent and star in between the longest rays, like the one you have on the left side of the picture. The other have the crescent and star on top of the first layer rays and have long pins.

I don't know why, but they usually produce it that way, so they can claim later that it is made as a souvenir item. One can say that, perhaps the top layer was reeligned because it became loose. Maybe! but untill this date when I see similar orders, I do not look twice.

demir

They like to sell Mecidi and Osmani Orders mainly.

Hi,

One of the old fake medal sellers "abilge" changed his eby idendity into: "hattersteaclub ( Feedback Score Of 0 ) "

and emerged again (sometimes from Australia and other times Belgium) : items: 160493243376 and 160493230687.

Beware of these sellers:

( dursen51, cinare2006, moys-10 )using these names

( abilge, hattersteaclub ) using these names

dominique.8

guryil

Hi,

One of the old fake medal sellers "abilge" changed his eby idendity into: "hattersteaclub ( Feedback Score Of 0 ) "

and emerged again (sometimes from Australia and other times Belgium) : items: 160493243376 and 160493230687.

Beware of these sellers:

( dursen51, cinare2006, moys-10 ) using these names

( abilge, hattersteaclub ) using these names. He has two accounts one in Belgium and one in Australia.

dominique.80

guryil

KUNURI WARS: 28-30 November 1950

218 KIA, 455 WIA, 94 MIA . Total: 767

SEUL DEFENCE (10-18 May) and KUMYANGJANG-NI BATTLE (25-26 January 1951) (12 dead, 31 wounded, total: 43)

The Korean War Map , places where the Turkish Brigade fought:

According to the Assc. Total Korean War:

KIA: 734

WIA: 2147

MIA: 175

Prisoner of War: 234 (They all been released later)

TOTAL: 3290

:angry:

On the right side of Lt.s uniform lies the uniform donated by the (late) Private Bahri Ozkoc and here are his badges NORTH STAR (Kutup Yildizi or Simal Yildizi in Turkish) of the Turkish Brigade and "Tropic Lightning" badge of the U.S. 25th Infantry Division which the Turkish Brigade was attached.
(Note : The North Star badge seems to have the stars on the oppoite side, I don't know why and they don't know also!! )

Patchs of Lt. Turkogul:

Hi,

Here are the pictures of the uniforms worn during the Koren War by a Turkish officer and a private.

These pictures are taken today when I visited again the small museum of the Turkish War Veterans Assc.

First the uniform of the then Lieutenant Cengiz Turkogul. I also met him today and he took me to the Museum to show me the uniform he has worn.

He retired as a Captain.

He is in charge of the Parliament Relations of the Assc. :D