demir

JOR WAGNER & SOHN

JH WERNER

GODET

FR. SEDLATZEK

BRUDER SCHNEIDER

BB&CO

HELLO,

AFTER RECEIVING A QUESTION FROM TIM TODAY I DECIDED TO PUT TOGETHER THE MAHLAS'S (PSEUDONYM) ON THE ORIGINAL AND THE PRIVATE MADE TWMs.

I ALSO INCLUDED THE TUGRA OF THE SULTAN RESAD.

AS YOU WILL SEE FROM THE PICTURES EVEN BB&CO HAS DIFFERENT POSITIONED MAHLAS'S. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MEYBAUER THE STYLE OF THE TUGRAS ARE DIFFERENT. SOME TUGRAS HAVE ARMS CURVED TOWARDS THE MAHLAS.

SOME MAHLAS'S ARE EGG HAPE, SOME ROUND. O THERE IS NO END TO IT.

IF YOU LIKE THE TWM YOURSELF, KEEP AND ENJOY IT.

ALL THE BEST

demir

Hello Demir,

I have a question concerning the Mahlas. Is it necessarily a bad sign on TWM's if the Mahlas is not oriented exactly correct per the figure you show? Meaning, can the Mahlas be rotated slightly, or does it have to be right-side up as in your figure?

Thank you!

Tim

HELLO TIM,

NO NOT AT ALL. YOU CAN SEE MAHLAS WHICH WERE NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED IN SOME TWM. THIS HAPPENS WHEN THE PIN IS LOOSE IN THE FOREIGN MADE ONES (AWS,GODET,SEDLATZEK ETC) OR BECAUSE OF THE MANUFACTURER SUCH AS BB&CO. BB&CO HAS INSTALLED MAHLAS ALL SHAPES AND ROTATIONS.

ALSO THE POSITION OF THE ARMS OF THE TUGRA MAY DIFFER WITHIN THE SAME COMPANY.

FOR ME IT IS NOT IMPORTANT AS FAR AS THE MEDAL IS OK. ONCE AGAIN I WOULD LIKE TO INDICATE THAT ONLY THE PAINTED ONES ARE THE OTTOMAN MADE ONES AND ALL THEIR SHAPES ARE SAME.

BEST WISHES

demir

The group with the TWM and their friends with European style hats and clothing is very interesting. They also wear the ribbon of the TWM and Gallipoli style hats (Enveriye).

They are not Turkish officers but Indian Muslims who fought side by side with their Turkish brothers. They were a medical unit. Indian muslims also helped the Turkish War of Liberation during the years 1919-22 by sending money and medical aid. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk grunded the famous Turkish Bank "Türkiye İş Bankası A.Ş." with the capital sended by our Indian Muslim brothers in 1926 just after the declaration of New Turkish Republic. Türkiye İş Bankası A.Ş. is one of the leading banks of the world economy.

Thank you Tosun bey,

After this thread when I look at the picture, the faces resembles more Indian to me also. I thought that the help of the India Muslims were merely financial but this brought a new dimention.

Thank you very much again.

Demir :beer:

Terry,

I don't want to hijack your thread or get too far off-topic but, I seen this piece on Detlev's last update and thought it was interesting as the screwback is marked "Hansen". Looking at the enamel patterns though, is closely resembles other makers. Do you have any that match? 9-rivets

Thoughts anyone?

Tim

Hello,

I think this is Godet and the screwback is made by Hansen.

Here is a picture of the reverse of an Godet at home, it has 9 rivet holes with the same pattern. 9 th is behind the pins loop.

Thanks

demir

VERY NICE,

LOVELY COLLECTION

Demir :D

The question then is, "Is the piece I posted a period produced item or a modern repro?"

I think a modern repro.

Merhaba Demir.

I see that the Tughs on the ebay star are not straight so this should make us question the item but one of the Tughs on your 1st Star is bent toward the El Gazi. So what does that mean?

Happy New Year to you too and to all on the forum.

Terry

Hi Terry,

In this case tugra is OK.

I was talking about my medals Tughs.

All the best hope to se you this time when you come to Ankara.

demir

I would very much like to read comments on this as this star looks fine to me. The enamel and the designs underneath it seem to match the others shown above.....

Hi,

What is a fake for the TWM ?

For me apart from the Turkish Made painted ones, they are all fake.

(Although I have a lot of them, they look nice, even the picture of the medal of mine in this thread is fake)

So what you are asking is ; " is this a fake copy of the fake"?

Apart from the lines on the arms and bad finishing,

the star on the pin has 4 corners, normally it has 5. Check the first two medals in this page the stars has 5 corners and yours has only 4.

ALSO in the picture of the TWM in eby which is given as the original of the TWM (suggested by an old chap in Auckland) has 5 corners.

In this case, as he suggested, this may be a fake of the fake. So we can all it a new version.

On the other hand

The reason why I started this thread was the shape of the Tugra on my medal.

The TUGHS (the lines in the middle) have to be straight not bend toward the pseudonym (the egg shape on the right).

Please check my other thread on OTTOMAN SULTAN TUGRAS ( http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=40277 ).

All the best and a HAPPY NEW YEAR

demir

Thank you Demir.

I'm azeriturk, so it's "Shah askerleri" in azeri translation.

Thats right,

all the best

demir

The old Ottoman script is: "Asakir-i Şahane" (Ottoman Army or Sultan's Army)

There was a discussion in this forum about the Ottoman belt buckles some time ago. :beer:

For some fakes, take a look at the auctions of mcstls - see for example ebay auction 220511512238. Sometimes he also has them made up with red ribbons - also fakes not originals with a swapped ribbon.

These UN medals by mcstls are fakes meant to deceive collectors and sold as such - they are not "new versions" for qualified recipients or whatever. The WW1 Interallied victory medals by mcstls are also fakes.

Rgds,

Dave

Thanks Dave,

Please tell us how we can find out a fake UN Turkish medal, where to look, the Turkish Korea writing or a sign on the medal etc.

In this forum there are some articles which explaines how to understand fake medals, Mecidis or Osmanis or other Ottoman medals.

All the best

It is upsetting to find that Turkish UN Korea Medals are being copied. Once such medals are in circulation they are easily added into collections such as mine. This is making me hesitate about continuing to collect Korean War medals. The Turkish medal may be particularly desirable because of the reputation of the men who earned it, but perhaps the medal cheats have already spread their web wider than that.

Brett

Hi,

I did not see any copy Turkish UN Korean War Medal. Even the medals of the red ribbon ones are not copy as far as I know, only original ribbons are replaced with the red ones.

The new version of the UN Korean English War Medals are on sale and they can be easily noticed. (pictures attached both original and new - new with box )

demir

Also GMIC member JBFloyd says that there is an Italian version.

.

.

For other country medals please check

http://gmic.co.uk/in...ar&fromsearch=1

Have you tried member demir?

Thanks Ulsterman,

Brett,

Please check my Korean War medals collection:

http://gmic.co.uk/in...ar&fromsearch=1

Under the UN command, 39.000 troops served from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Ethiopia, France, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Philippines, South Korea, Thailand, TURKEY, Union of South Africa, United Kingdom and the United States. Denmark and Italy provided medical support only.

There is no Turkish red ribbon UN Korean War ribbon. Some people claimed that Turks do wear the white and blue ribbon of the UN because it resembles the Greek colours but there is no Government or Miltary decree or regulation about not wearing it.

The red ribbon is a good marketing tool for an American company named m......

The real Turkish language UN Korean war medal is shown below. I have all original Koren UN W.M except the Spanish issue.

All the best demir

Hi,

Here is a group of Ottoman Officers or Cadets. Army, Navy and Cavalry.

Please check the belt buckles different styles.

In the picture of the 4 officers; the one on the right back side who wears black uniform has white uniform in the bigger group of 7.

Officer (7 group) sitting front right is the same person on the front right in the group of four and he is a doctor or pharmacist.

Officer sitting at the left is Cavalry.

The one on his left is engineer. Is the civilian who wears a fes (fez) (4 group) is the same person who may be the engineer?

The group with the TWM and their friends with European style hats and clothing is very interesting. They also wear the ribbon of the TWM and Gallipoli style hats (Enveriye).

demir

Dear Demir Abi ,

Hurmetler ,

Honestly , i can not say that i like this bar either..

The Hicaz Railway is not on the Hicaz Railway ribbon , it must be a pink ribbon on a bar , and the Life saving (Tahlisiye Medal)'s ribbon is absolutely wrong , must NOT be lined , it must be a soft plain green ribbon...

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

Dear Avsar,

Yes I know as I have mentioned these concernes of mine in my earlier thread.

The main reason why I bought this bar was the value of the medals on it seperately.

Now I have 3 medals 1. Iron Cross 2. Hicaz railway 3. Life saving

I used the ribbons for the medals which they belonged and add real ribbons from my stock on the above mentioned medals.

All the best

demir