Bill Dienna

The "Academy Badge" ????

Medal reverse...

Medal...

Interior...

In going through a box I found a few items and now, I'm embarased to say,I'm darned if I can remember exactly what they are. My recollection is that the enameled badge is the graduation badge from the Academy from which Gagarin graduated and which, I believe, was re-named in his honor. The gold colored medal was, I think, supposed to go with the document, but now I'm not sure at all about that, not being able to remember what the medal and/or document are supposed to be for. The document is nice, though, with a seperate, tipped-in image of Gagarin. I think it might be "The Right Stuffski" award. Anyone ever seen these things before, or able to better I.D. them? It's hell getting old and forgetting stuff!

Thanks, Rick. I presume that you're referring to the thread you created with two award documents? That sort of highlights my confusion on this subject. For example, the award document for your DPRK Foundation Order... That Order appears to have a space on the reverse for numbering the award. Obviously, yours was not numbered. But your document does have a line at the top of the page on the viewer's left for a (award certificate?) number to be written in. In fact, it appears that, like other such documents that I have seen, your award book did in fact have a number filled in that was later removed. As I say...this is thoroughly perplexing to me. I did put the question to a collector in Asia who replied by saying, essentially, "It's North Korea. Who knows why they do anything up there?"

I'm curious as to whether anyone has any insight into the strange, indeed inexplicable, award documentation for the DPRK? I understand that Paul Schmitt, co-author of the book on Soviet awards, has been working on a volume on the DPRK awards, and he may well have gained some knowledge about this subject, but since I've no idea when that book might be forthcoming I thought that I would pose the question here. I have seen DPRK decorations of the early, Soviet-made period that were both numbered and unnumbered. I have also seen later orders, of DPRK production, that were similarly both numbered and unnumbered. The usual DPRK award book seems to have a fairly standard format, at least so far as I have seen. One page contains a space for a photo of the recipient (though I've not yet seen one containing a photo). To the right of the photo area is a line for a "Number" to be inserted. I am presuming that this is a number for the award document itself. Curiously, I have observed award documents of this style being offered for sale in which the number at this location has been removed. Below this we have the recipient's name, birth date, and birthplace, as well as his or her affiliation (such as member of the Korean People's Army). On the next page is a "table" sort of chart, in which the awards are listed.This includes a space for the serial number of the award itself to be recorded, though one rarely appears. Does anyone have a clue as to what the rhyme or reason (if any) there is in this system? Award documents themselves are numbered, but not the awards? (Except, of course, when they are numbered!) And some award documents contain all of the personal information, but the award document number has been removed? And, supposedly, according to some sellers, a document that is being offered with a numbered Order is the original document for the award, although the document is numbered (next to the photo), and the Order is numbered, but the number from the reverse of the Order does not appear in the award book! As that fellow in "The Far Side" cartoon used to say: "What the hey...?"

Can we start a new section of the Forum? "Garish, Pimped-Out, and Too Cool For Fools Militaria of the World" I suggest that we get the guy who played "Huggy Bear" on the old Starsky and Hutch program to moderate.

Rick, I just found this post. I think that this badge is awesome! Have you turned up and more of these electric cool-aid acid badges??

The term "Gilding the lilly" comes to mind here. In the category of "Same church, different pew": A native german collector once told me of meeting with a former Luftwaffe officer who agreed to sell his decorations, including a Spanish Cross, on the reverse of which he had had engraved his name and award date. They were sitting in the veteran's home chatting after the agreement on the terms, when the veteran picked up the Spanish Cross, excused himself, and dissappeared. A few moments later was heard the sound of a grinding wheel from the basement. No engraving on THAT cross ever again!

It is correct that I did not see the article.

Actually, I don't think we can say what awards the Colonel has received in his career, since we can't see his ribbons, which would be on the other side of his uniform, away from the photographer. It is possible that he was career army, in which case I would expect that he had several medals dating from at least World War I. On the subject of foreign awards, I once knew an American Lieutenant Colonel who commanded an armored regiment in Normandy. He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for valor. For the same action he was awarded the British Distinguished Service Order. I asked him if he knew how he had been selected for the award. He told me that at some point some British officers had requested that US Army command provide them with copies of valor citations for the campaign. It was his understanding that those British officers then sat down at a table and went through all of the citations, selecting some of them, and placing them in a pile. The soldiers whose citations ended up in that pile received the equivalent British award for their American decoration. I also knew one of Eisenhower's pilots. He had flown Ike into the Soviet zone to receive the Order of Victory from Marshal Zhukov. I asked him if he saw the decoration. He said "Absolutely", that Ike had shown it to him when they had returned to the America zone. He told me that Ike took the Order of Victory in the palm of his hand and said "Look at that son of a bitch! What am I going to do with that goddam thing?". Then, after a moment of reflection, Ike said "Well...I guess it will look good in a museum someday." and that, the pilot added, is exactly where it ended up.

Hi Chuck! Well, I saw the photo on Ebay. It was titled simply as "American receives Russian award" or something like that. My eye was caught by the Lieutenant with the guards badge, and I purchased the photo for $10. What's really interesting is that the Colonel receiving the ORB is named on the reverse of the photo. I'm in the process now of attempting to locate one of his family members in the hope of obtaining more information about him. I'm sure that his citation for the ORB was much the same as many of our citations for the Legion of Merit, to wit, "For exceptional services in the Allied cause, materially contributing to the defeat of the enemy", and similar generalizations. But one never knows. I would love to know, for example, if he received an award book? Photo in it? What the heck did he actually do for the Army that led to him being given the ORB, for even if it was a generalized citation, he still had to have been in some position that would have brought him to the attention of the senior award-givers! I once saw a cased Order of the Patriotic War, first class, that was purchased at an estate sale in New Jersey. It had been awarded to an American WW II Navy Officer who was stationed in Moscow during the War. It included an award book with his photo in Navy uniform. A very cool item that was sold at the estate sale after his death. I've always been interested in the exchange of awards between the USA and other countries, so I was glad to obtain this photo.

That's a really interesting point, Chris. I'm sure that he probably did. And yet, if you look at the portrait photographs of the Soviet Marshals taken in full dress uniforms in the early 1950's, they ALL wear their foreign decoration, including their American decorations.

Well, I'm still getting the hang of this scanner/photography stuff, Paul, but I'll give it a try. Which award?

I thought that this was an interesting photo. Taken in May of 1945, it shows an American Colonel of a Corps Command level (note that he wears General Staff collar insignia) receiving the Order of the Red Banner from General V.S. Kuznetzov of the Red Army 40th army infantry corps. It is not readily visible in the photo (I didn't even notice it until I enlarged it on my spiffy scanner), but General Kuznetzov wears around his neck the American decoration of the Legion of Merit, Commander grade, which I'm certain that he had just been awarded himself. What I found particularly fascinating was the young Lieutenant standing between the officers. He wears crossed rifles on his collar as an infantry officer, buy wears no combat awards, simply the European Campaign ribbon. AND he wears the Soviet Guards badge! I assume that he was the interpreter. I think that the only other photo that I've seen of an American wearing a Guards badge was one of Patton. I wonder whether there was some criteria for "awarding" a Guards badge, or whether it was more of a "souvenir" given by the Guards unit?

Here is what Time magazine had to say about the first style NASA DSM that was awarded to Alan Shepard, the first American in space: Lackluster Medals Friday, May. 19, 1961 Since the days of ancient Athens, a brave act has deserved a proud and artistic medal?everywhere but in the U.S. Last week when President Kennedy honored the country's first astronaut, all he had to pin on the lapel of Commander Alan Shepard was something that looked as if it might have come out of a Cracker Jack box. The Distinguished Service Medal of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration is the most unimaginative decoration turned out by the U.S. Government so far?and the competition for that title is stiff. The Navy Medal of Honor is not only inelegant, it does not even hang gracefully from its ribbon. The Bronze and Silver Stars are almost childish in design, and the propeller motif of the Distinguished Flying Cross looks like the work of a mechanic. Though the Legion of Merit is better, even it seems shoddy compared to France's Legion of Honor. Such U.S. medals are turned out by the U.S. Army Institute of Heraldry, which has only two trained sculptors on its staff. Says James Risk of the American Numismatic Society in Manhattan: "There is a tendency in U.S. medals to go too much for symbolism, regardless of good design." Adds his colleague Henry Grunthal: "The medals are designed by craftsmen, not artists, and the craftsmen are told exactly what to do. The fantasy of the artist is suffocated by regulation." No one at NASA will say who is responsible for Commander Shepard's D.S.M., but that perhaps is a blessing. One side of the medal shows a planet and satellite?a motif that any schoolboy might have thought up. On the other side is the inevitable laurel wreath. As for the lettering, Designer Henry Hart of the Smithsonian Institution has just one word: "Atrocious."

As to the Space MOH: About a month ago an auction company sold the award document for the space MOH that was conferred upon Ed White, one of the three astronauts who died in the launch pad fire in Apollo 1. As I recall it sold for around $7,000. According to the auction information, the actual medal had been sold a few years ago by the auction company. At the time whoever had it wanted to keep the citation. The medal itself reportedly sold for about $95,000. I hope that whover purchased the medal also acquired the award document. Here is the Space MOH and document conferred upon cicilian teacher Christa McAullife, who died in the explosion of the space shuttle Challenger.

This is a very interesting thread and subject. A question: Does anyone have any pointers on how to spot a copy of the first style NASA DSM as opposed to an original? I recently read that the number of recipients of the NASA bravery medaled was nearly doubled when a number of NASA personnel were awarded the medal for saving NASA facilities in the face of a hurricane. Finally, I have some of the "astronaut wings" that have been around for awhile, including an example of the Air force "Command Astronaut" wing in sterling silver. I always wondered why so many of these wings were made in light of the relatively few number of astronauts. I just read, though, that they are not so much "astronaut" wings as they are "space pilot" wings. Any member of the military who flew above 50 miles into the atmosphere (which was set as the dividing line between the atmosphere and space) qualified for the wings. I also recently acquired a framed presentation set of three small flags, all of which were flown in space. The set consists of an American flag flown on STS-1, the first flight of the space shuttle; a small US Marine corps flag that was flown on STS-5; and a small US Navy flag that was flown on Apollo 17. These were all presented to the Chief of Naval Operations "By his astronauts". But again, any suggestions on telling a fake first style DSM from a copy?

From Dictionary.com: ?noun 1. an instructor; teacher; tutor. 2. the head of a school. 3. the head of a preceptory. I wonder what the role is in the Masonic world?

Whoa ! That's a mouthful! Impressive sounding, that's for sure. Thank you, Chairman, for the guidance. (Why do I feel like I just addressed Mao?) O.K., now I'm off to look for information on that....group. But first I'm going to go look up "Preceptor". Thanks so much again! Any ideas about that neck badge and what it might be called?

Maybe this is the outfit of the fellow who renders the warning... Follow. But. Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived. Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth. As for the label in the cloak...both the label and the material seem of modern origin. The manufacturer was in Mississippi or Alabama. There is not enough nomenclature to make a determination about much else. In other words, no telephone number and no street address, so the presence or absence of a postal zip code isn't applicable. But now it occurs to me: When I get home I'll check the company's name to see if it is still in operation. If so, maybe a quick call or letter will answer the question.

They're the ones with the hand grenades, right? As for Halloween: Her: Hey, Bill, great outfit ! Me: Thanks. Her: What are you supposed to be? Me: I have absolutely no idea. And isn't a "patriarchal cross" similiar to a cross of lorraine, with the top horizontal bar being shorter than the one beneath it?

Thanks, U-Man ! I was thinking Catholic fraternal as well, but I cannot seem to identify the cross as being anything Catholic. Any help is appreciated!

No, I'm pretty certain it has nothing to do with the Klan at all. The Klan has its own symbology, and it's got nothing like this cross to my knowledge, let alone a neck order with a crown on it. The hood element to the robe reminds me of a religious order garment, and it's really not a robe so much as it is a cloak.