Bill Dienna

The neck badge:

Well, my friends, here's hoping that you can help. I have tried to research this but so far I am coming up with nothing. A large white hooded robe, lined in red. On the left breast is a red cross. The cross is similiar to a Lorraine Cross, except that on these items the top horizontal bar is WIDER than the lower horizontal bar. There is also a neck badge, of the same design, surmounted with a crown, and suspended from a black neck ribbon. Any thoughts would be welcome!

Hey, Rich, that would be great ! Thanks a lot !

Rich... Thanks so much again. I was thinking along the same lines, of pilots in civilian wear. But I wanted to check with you just in case, for example, the photo had come with other pics of the same guys in uniform or something. Once more, I truly appreciate your assitance!

Thank you, Rich ! I truly aprciate your help. But I was wondering... The two fellows in the third photo seem to be wearing civilian clothes beneath their jackets and browsing through the aisle of a liquor store ! Is there some way that we know that they are military pilots?

Does anyone happen to have any photos that show any types of flight jackets worn by Soviet pilots between the 1960's and 1990? I realize that in the cockpit they would have usually worn preassure suits, but I assume that they also had some type of jacket, as did US pilots. Any help would really be appreciated ! Thanks !

Rick, many, many thanks. You are a true historian. But we already knew that, didn't we ?

By the way... The first of these photos I uploaded directly from my CD. Then every attempt to do that again resulted in the "too large" error message. I then DOWN loaded the photos from the CD to my hard drive, and then attempted to UP load them to the posts. No problems at all then, even though the photos remained the same size that had caused the "too large" error message.

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O.K, I'm REALLY ticked off, here. I took multiple photos of these stamps on the two documents. They were ALL the same size. I wrote them onto a cd from which I am now trying to post them. But although one picture loaded and was posted, every attempt with the other photos results in an error message that the files exceed the permitted size. But they are all the same size ! If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.

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I had the same experience a number of years ago. I purchased a cased Hindenburg Cross from an internet dealer in Imperial militaria. It came "with the award document". When I examined the cased cross upon receipt I did what I always do, and what you did: I lifted the pad in the case. And what do you suppose I found underneath? Yup, ANOTHER award document, which was presumably, but not conclusively, the original document for that cross. Anyway... Rick, because ( cue music ! ): YOU ASKED FOR IT ! I will post photos of what were my best efforts last night at getting photos of the stamps on the award card for the Victory Over Germany medal and the Military Merit medal.

Wow. Now I remember why I no longer post items on forums. It was soooo obvious to me that the Military Merit medal, as unnumbered, was added by someone at some point that I didn't even bother to mention it. I posted this grouping because of that aspect of it that followed my statement "What I find interesting about this group....". To say that the MMM was added, or that there is no way to guarantee that other medals absolutely came with the documents is a little like saying "Hmmmm...this car has no engine. Someone must have removed it." I guess I just think differently. When I posted this I wasn't focused on the obvious fact that the MMM medal was clearly not the awarded example; I wasn't concentrating on the fact that this Major might have been given a Red Star, or that jubille medals might have been awarded. What struck me about this assemblage was that this was an officer who apparently defended Leningrad as a member of State Security and served in that capacity such that, almost as soon as the KGB Irreproachable Service Medal was authorized...BAM, he gets a twenty year award. And the KGB award in 1958 thereby enlightens us as to what he was doing for the prior two decades. The card also indicated that there was no "catch-up" award of the second and third class medal. Well, adios gentlemen.

Well, of course. This is the case with every Soviet group that involves awards other than numbered orders. It is also the case with every Imperial German group, Third Reich group, and any American group that involves unnumbered campaign medals or unnamed decorations, which pretty much means most groups after 1941, unless posthumous. Unfortunately, it is probably true that, in the absence of some kind of iron-clad documentation, such as a "These are all of my medals" note from a recipient, most groups from countries that did not name or number their decorations will always be at issue. It reminds me of a cased Knights Cross and Oak Leaves group that at one time was in the posession of Steve Wolfe and Neil Hardin. Whoever aquired it from the German veteran had him sign, in pen, the inside of the lids of the cases for his KC and OL in an attempt to provide provenance. Such are the hurdles in collecting militaria.

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I thought that thiswas an interesting little grouping. It consists of a Defense of Leningrad medal, with the large award document dated 1943. There is a Victory Over Germany medal with the document from 1946. Additionally, there is a Medal for Military Merit award book for a medal in the 3 million range. The bok itself lacks a photo, but bears the stamp that legitimizes it without the photograph. The medal itself is unnumbered. What I found to be particularly interesting is the early german silver medal for 20 Years of Irreproachable Service in the KGB, with an award card from 1958 that carries only the first class medal. This would seem to indicate that, as of 1958, this officer had already served 20 years in the Soviet State Security apparatus, placing his entry at around 1937 or 1938. Those would have been interesting years, to say the least, to have been in the NKVD / MGB / KGB. I will try to get some close-ups of the award document stamps, but I'm really photographically challenged when it comes to taking well-lit, in-focus close-up photos, and unfortunately I lack a scanner.

My cat inspects the documents.....

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Thank you, Rick ! Unfortunately, Santa didn't bring me a scanner for Christmas. I was wondering if POW status was mentioned, hence my "Gulag" question, since I have had the impression that vast numbers of Soviet soldiers who were taken captive ended up being sent off to Siberia. Here is another document relating to Karpov's imprisonment. I think that he must have been lucky to survive it.

A fascinating group, at least to me....

This is an entry page from the military service book of Nicholas Karpov. As I understand various entries, Karpov was a machine operator who was educated through the eighth grade. He was a member of neither the Komsomol nor the Communist Party. His military service seems to have begun in Moscow in 1941. But there is a reason that I raised the question of whether he might have seen the Gulag. Before I post further, I was hoping that someone might be able to help with this page of the military service booklet, and tell me what service, if any, can be determined from the entries. Thanks very much !