VtwinVince

Thanks for this truly fascinating thread, John, I can't get enough of these things. I once heard that a book was written called The Ehrenbechers: Where are they Now? or something to that effect. I wonder if anyone has a copy of this? It's funny that your source states that the regular Becher was awarded for five victories, as I know for certain that my uncle got his for his first, and he received the goblet only three weeks after the claim was made. How did you happen to find out about your Becher coming up for auction? Certainly seems like an incredible stroke of good luck. BTW my dad was living as a refugee near Koblenz after the war, and his neighbour was Freiherr Treusch von Buttlar-Brandenfels.

Those are great. The subject of semi- or non-official items such as these is fascinating and a whole area of study unto itself.

Thanks for the tip, Ralph, but I got one from eMedals for a decent price, and I didn't need the case as it's going on a "looted" spange.

Thanks for the help, gentlemen, looks like I might resurrect that spange sooner than expected...

I'm still looking for a third class, ohne Schwerter, for my great-grandfather's spange. Any help of course appreciated.

The notion that Austria was "dragged" into the Third Reich is ludicrous. The vast majority of Austrians were avid supporters of the Anschluss in 1938, and supplied many of the top Nazis, including of course AH. After the war the Austrian government cleverly warped history by insisting that Austria had been "invaded" and "occupied" by the Germans and was a victim of Nazi aggression. This of course made them exempt from the stigma of Nazism which has plagued Germany since the war. One only needs to look at the footage of Hitler speaking at the Heldenplatz in 1938 to know that this is utter rubbish.

Brian, I don't want to be nosey, but if your father was a US pilot, how did you end up with the von Etzel surname?

Les and Brian, you are both right that there were exceptions to the rule, and I don't deny that many allied soldiers were not motivated by revenge. But I think it's time to dispel the notion that allied troops were somehow involved in a "crusade" in Europe, ridding it of evil and being welcomed by the liberated. Let's face it, being German after May 8, 1945 was not a good thing, whether in the east or west. It was open season on anyone or anything German because, after all, they had inflicted Hitler on the world.

Interesting thread, Brian, thanks for posting it. You remind me of the stories my maternal grandmother used to tell me about the winter of 1945-46, when she was reduced to hawking the family's jewels and decorations in order to avoid starvation. This was after the US army "liberated" the area they were living in, Lower Saxony, booted them out of their home, ransacked and appropriated all their property and refused to give them any food. To the victors the spoils, as they say...

Fantastic video of Red 7, the only thing missing is the Hakenkreuz on the fin. The conversation the mechanics are having is interesting, talking about what performance is necessary for what weight. I've always thought the DB601 and successors were one of the great engines ever produced.

Okay, now I'm just wildly flailing, but the ribbons look way too fresh to me, and the 938 mark on the HHO seems strange.

I've never seen a bar with two pins on the back.

Thanks for posting those items, John, they make very interesting viewing.

I like your analogy.

John, that case from HH which sold for eight grand, is that an authenticated item? I've never seen anything like it in terms of the number of high profile people represented.

Thanks, John, I'd love to get a replica wooden base. You're right, it is driving me nuts. I know a collector in Germany has several items belonging to my uncle, including his Soldbuch and several award documents, but he's apparently not entertaining thoughts of selling.

I know what you mean, John. I've been lucky enough to rescue the Urkunde for the Ehrenbecher, but no base or box unfortunately. I'm still hoping one day to find the Ehrenpokal my uncle got in October, 1940. He told me that it was presented by Goering personally on the Channel and came in the blue presentation case. It was taken by Americans in 1945 in Bavaria. BTW he commanded the Polizei-Fliegerstaffel at Karlshorst during the "Kapp Putsch". I have some nice aerial photos of Berlin from this period.

Rick, just to reinforce your dogma, my uncle's private purchase 1918 Juncker badge also has no crown. I'd post pictures if I could.

I go away for holidays, come back, and see this group...ach du liebes Bisschen! Luftmensch, that is the most fascinating group I've ever seen, what an amazing career Wieprich had. And that cigarette case is beyond amazing. BTW the Ehrenbecher is an exact duplicate of the one I have from my uncle. Out of interest, do you know what happened to his son?

Quite right, Dave, it was Prussia's great tragedy that the "Hundred Days Kaiser" died in 1888.

My dad used to talk about the winter of 45-46 as being the worst time of his life. Not only had they lost everything to the Russians, but they were literally starving. They had distended bellies, and my grandmother used to try and feed her six children with whatever she could find, mostly soups made from turnips stolen from a farmers' field. The highlight of that winter was feasting on a horse which had been hit by a train. In addition, my grandfather had recently returned, by a miracle, from a Soviet "Vernichtungslager" and was in such poor health that he almost died. It is hard to imagine the privations of that time, especially when you consider that my family had been one of some stature in East Prussia, and were reduced to living in such awful conditions.

Les, what you have to say is fascinating, and topical. My father and his family arrived from Koenigsberg, via Cottbus, in the Rhineland in 1945, and were regarded with derision by other members of the family with whom they sought refuge, being as they were "Saupreussen" and more mouths to feed. This prompted my father to emigrate here in 1952, since the western part of Germany was anything but "home".

Mein lieber Herr Luftmensch, all I can say is "Ausgezeichnet". It seems the German officers of the first war had a much nicer time in Siberia than their successors of the second conflict.

Right. Gordon, that is a fabulous group, any chance of determining ownership?

Brian, the Magdeburg connection is interesting, as I believe the regiments from this garrison town considered themselves more "Prussian" than the Prussians, although technically they were Saxons. My great-grandfather was also a Magdeburger, before transplanting himself to Berlin, and was the architect responsible for the Hindenburg-Kaserne, or barracks, in that city. There was, and to a certain extent still, exists a curious regionalism in Germany, with the southern states still regarding anything Prussian with disdain. I think this dates back to the wars of unification, when Bismarck literally pressganged many states into siding with Prussia, or risk facing severe consequences.