A Collector

And the reeeeeeeeeeverse :

Hi Rick, thanks for the reply. Here is the bar for all interested. Obverse:

Thanks. Yes indeed, the 10 place bar at auction right now. The seller states the swords are marked "800" on the reverse of the swords. That leads me to another question about this order. I have seen these in higher content marks ie 900, and 950. Is this an indicator of time frame of manufacture (early/late war) or merely preference of the awarding state as to what content purchased? I ask this because I know silver content marks are sometimes factored into EK manufacture timeframes...thanks again.

My question about this order concerns the area within the red box. I have seen many of these that featured the thick borders along the reverse of the lower arms while the obverse does not have this feature. Additionally, I have also seen other examples where the border is the same thickness on ALL of the arms (obverse/reverse). I always thought it was very odd that the lower reverse arm only exhibited this characteristic on some examples. Is this something to be wary of or is it just a case of a manufacturing variant? This photo comes from ebay.

Yes, indeed. But this should be a HAPPY thread... Behold.......

First, I would NOT access the site right now as there is a Trojan virus that has been affecting it for weeks now. I THOUGHT the plague was purged last night, but my Mcafee anti-virus detected it before it did any damage. On the subject of the bar...I guess his thinking is "prove it"...I don't know. He did tell me that he took the bar in hand and examined it and said that the ribbons and the construction looked original to him.

I have been there and know what you mean, but settling for second best always leaves an empty feeling... .

Miguel, I have learned to NOT buy in the heat of the moment. When we see something that has a clock or very limited time, we tend to not be able to think logically or clearly. If I were you, I would pass, after the sale is over you will probably be glad. A long time ago, I bought a few "must" haves just because it was at auction and I thougt it was the "only one" out there, I regretted it afterwards and sold the piece within a few months at a loss. I just think this bar would be a hard one to move if you wanted to sell, and maybe you would take a loss as well...if you don't love it now, chances are very good that you will not love it once it arrives.

Hi, I'm still learning here but nevertheless, my opinion is that the whole bar is not visually appealing (it is ugly), and looks like it has not been taken care of. It also looks like someone has installed a makeshift pin on the reverse. The red backing looks "messed" with to me, especially at the bottom. I would hold out for a more aesthetically pleasing example...but that is me.

To me, the hardware construction looks very much the same as the Oldenburg FA 1st. Class crosses in iron that were produced during WW I.

Yes indeed, I am much better too .....I think you already know what is in the package... Give my new birdie a hug for me.

Timo, I think my heart actually skipped a few beats when I first read that post!!! I am going to have a shot of vodka (straight up) as well...cheers!

Hi Scott, If you have a chance to look inside the book titled "World War I German Aviators The Sanke Cards", you will see period illustrations of a few sloppy medal bars where not one of the medals line up. An excellent illustration of this can be found on pages 164-168 showing progression of awards earned by Leutnant Max Muller.

Hi, I have been reading feverishly on these topics. I have not seen Rick's ribbon bar article, but I will. My personal opinion: It is quite expected for a dishonest rat to doctor and construct for profit, but for someone to label themselves as a "collector" while participating in the removals, additions, and fabrications of ribbon bars and medal bars...is heresy (but that is my opinion). I think real collectors should NOT take it upon themselves to engage in any of the afformentioned degredations, ever. (again, just MY opinion). Thanks again for the reply.

I must admit that I did not sleep well last night after seeing posts 21 and 22....matter of factly, I had many nightmares that involved being horribly violated in unspeakable ways...I need therapy now.

Hi................. ....................... what a relief. But, the basis of my question still is of interest to me. Medal bars are a fairly new venture in my collecting, and I am genuinely wanting to know more about how we can be sure about bars coming out of Austria. I apologize if I cam across somewhat irritated...because I was after what just happen with the bar on Barry's site.

Hi Stogieman, Thanks for that link, and I read it a couple of days ago. From what I know, this bar has passed muster with a lot of long time collectors. With all due respect, I am finding it troubling that it seems lately that nearly every bar with an Austrian award is "questionable". I would be very intereted in hearing some ducumented and or factual evidence concerning these "made up" bars. I am no expert, not by any means but I have collected for a long time. I know that there are crooks that excel in fakery, but it seems lately nearly every bar is becoming suspect. I have even seen a bar or two ripped apart in some postings recently that really made me get that sick feeling in my stomach. There are a few bars here that were posted, that with out the period photographic evidence supporting their legitimacy, would have been dismissed as fake or bad as the arrangement or combination did not make sense to the collector. So, I guess unless we actually see a bar being made or ALL of the construction teqniques and components are wrong...how do we really know?

You have GOT to be kidding me. Please how do you know this?

I have admired that bar since I first saw it on another forum....I NEVER thought I would own it. It took moving some items from the collection, but well woth it I think. This definitely goes into the "No Sale" category.

Very, very nice.....but I just spent my "allowance" (and then some ) on the White Falcon bar that Noor posted for sale. That was Father's Day, Birthday, and the next two Christmas'.... Thank you guys

Thanks again to all who posted. I had this on hold, but explained to Barry the descrepancies. He was very gracious and understanding as he is a class act IMHO. If anyone here knows of a good source for Imp. medal bars in the $600.00-$700.00 range, please send me a PM. Im looking for something not rare, or large, but something not so common. Maybe a Crown order or RAO in the mix. Most appreciative thanks again. Steve

I must say that I am very surprised by the findings. It is very sad indeed when the level of fakery includes soiled/worn ribbons. I am very surprised as it looks so veeeery convincing in its construction. I am however thankful for the help I have received here. My thanks to you all. Steve

Thanks for the very detailed reply Rick. I really do appreciate the help. Thanks to everyone else as well for the welcome and comments. Steve

Hi Mike, thanks. So the price is on the heavy side even with the noncombatant EK II? Also, would I be correct in saying that this probably belonged to a Dr.? I am thinking that it was because the FJC w/crown was only awarded to officers... Thanks again, Steve

Thank you very much Geroge for the words, and the welcome.