Ed_Haynes

$20,000

Ouch!

OK, I now have the real Markov prices:

2216 - documented silver head - $150,000 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2216

2217 - silver head - $42,500 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2217

2218 - type 3 screwback - $17,000 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2218

2219 - type 3 screwback - $17,000 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2219

2220 - type 4 - $1,600 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2220

2221 - type 4b - $1,600 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2221

See http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24118 for all prices, thanks Alex and William

My point, which seems to have been missed, was that these are Kuwaiti medals, not US medals. Who makes them is of secondary relevance.

No. Doesn't even look Mongolian.

Perhaps, in Italy. If you look at the prices that were being asked back in the 1960s and 1970s for items that had had their serial numbers gouged out, things have seemed cheap, until now.

William.

This is cruel. The Geneva Convention needs a whole dedicated article on such behavior.

Ouch.

Ed,

But good half of Soviet awards aren't researchable either. Take labor, pre-WW2 or partizans awards.

Some German awards are researchable in their own way. You won't get detailed citations, but military history can be traced if award is attributed.

William

Anything that is numbered (or named) can be researched, some day, so long as the records aren't trashed. And I have actually had good luck with some early labor awards. The researchers (and research wholesalers) just need to think -- and bribe -- their way outside their unfortunate military-fixated habituted channels.

An attribution does not, alas, give much to chew on. Depends, I guess, on how much you trust the attribution in today's commercial world, where every dealer/collector has a tale, or several.

I wish I had visited the FSB Border Forces museum. Did you need a special invitation to go there?

It took some string-pulling to arrange the invitation, but it all happened through my travel agent (with a guide and NO PHOTOS). It turned out I was there on the 65th anniversary of the German invasion, and a special vodka-imbued lunch and cultural performance had been laid on for the surviving old guys (KGB border tooops in 1941!), and the colonel who had arranged it asked me to sit in and meet them. Damn!

i feel lucky that when i started collecting soviet awards it was at the start of 2000 the prices actully way better then german prices and the fakes at the time wernt as bad as the german field either!but now its no where neare that now! the last thing i got was a order of glory 2nd and that was in trade! and to be honest i reckon soviet collection could well stay where it is!!!i feel luck though to have got my lenin foir E600 2 odd years ago!!!

True, but I'd have liked to find a screwback Lenin before it was All Over. But, if it isn't there yet, is is sure getting close. Spend my money on research (and language lessons) now?

We need to make a distinmction between legitimate Образец display pieces and shameless fakes (and, yes, Jim, we need to use the right names here).

Did you visit other museums, Jim? I was struck -- very strongly -- when I was there in 2006 (?) that while a place like the museum of the GPW was filled with nasty fakes -- far worse than Kapral Krap -- the Central Armed Forces Museum was relatively pure. I wonder if things have gone "walkabout" in those intervening months? Wouldn't put it past today's Russian museums.

No, so far nothing is up. It was, apparently, possible to follow this online by live audio feed but I never bothered. Part of me wishes I had. (Though I have been told the auctioneer found it necessary to comment that he felt the sale would go betrter and faster if he spoke Russian.) I have a considerable interest in seeing where two of the items went.

Could it be possible that many original (or official copies) pieces have been sold in the '80s and now substituted with less-valuable copies?

For some museums (Museum of GPW or Contemporary History), I'd guess that may be the case. I was told a TON of stuff came out of the Lenin Museum when it was shut down, => Museum of the Revolution => Museum of Contemporary History. The Armed Forces Museum seems better and things like the FSB Border Forces museum seemed all OK.

There are (or at least I have) very few sources on Soviet naval uniforms (they were so small, after all).

Question on the senior lieutenant boards shown. Engineer of some sort, but not normal engineer?

Some German units had a tradition of issuing a document to men who had been involved in certain actions.

For instance the RIR81 issued documents to men who fiught on the Souville heights and later in 1917 to men who were there for the battle on the Aisme.

There was no medal involved, just a document.

Here is the Verdun one...

<a href="http://www.kaiserscross.com/60401/134122.html" target="_blank">http://www.kaiserscross.com/60401/134122.html</a>

The Soviets, of course, did the same thing. Paper is cheap and easy, on all levels.

But, then, there is the general Continental tradition where the piece of PAPER is the award. Contact your nearest jeweler should you wish to purchase the medal.

However, that is not British Tradition (sniff, sniff, not like those dirty Continentals).

I'd agree that the Govenment are (is) right here, as they were wrong with the 'Suez' clasp.

Not everyone should get medals simply for merely existing in nasty circumstances (= doing their job). I am very early 19th century in that regard.

This stuff makes German WW2 awards look like bargains.

As they should be since the can't be researched and therefore have NO history to them.

But, when you say

. . . this is really the end of the road of Soviet collecting for most of ordinary collectors.

you are dead on target. None of us stand a chance against Russian Mafia Money. I'm not so sad to see these things going Home, but I wish I were more certain they were going to collectiors and not just to investor-accumulators money boys.

I went there AFTER going to the Museum of the GPW and the Museum of Contemporary History (since we can't use the "R-Word" any more, can we ), so everything (most things) looked good after seeing their Kaprap Krap. Some things were quite ugly (for example about the only "enlisted group" they showed). (See below.) Overall, good; 100% no.

Yugoslav Order of the Crown.

I believe this to be among the various veterans' badges (and medals too), issued quite unofficially after the Soviet withdrawal and, in many cases, after the demise of the USSR.

That is insane!

Are you sure the number is accurate?

William

Not completely, but this is what I was told. It was a lovely set, but THAT lovely?!?!?

I gather most sales were to Russians. Anyone surprised?

I hope the results will be available online some day.

Nice one!

Thanks for posting it!!

While I have not yet seen full results, I have been told:

Screwback gold-head Lenin with document - $150,000

Screwback silver-head Lenin - $43,250

Regular screwback Lenin - $14,000

So . . . for your next "hobby" . . . ????

Thanks for this, Marc. This was not on display when I visited the museum. That part of the exhibit was closed for rearrangment (probably political rearrangment too?).

I wonder how many other museums have (had) bits and pieces of Powers' plane?

Well done Marc.

I would guess that this piece is in the FSB Border Troops Museum in Moscow (which is a wonderful museum, by the way), but they wouldn't let me take photos there. They do VERY PROUDLY have pieces of Powers' plane.

Again: eBay!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess, when you deal there, you must expect such desecration?