Ed_Haynes

A few more images of the snooker hall (nee Lenin Museum).

Hard to photograph inside, very dark. Was once a MUST SEE for pioneers.

And a few others that would't fit into the previous scan.

You spared us the estimate:

?40000-50000

Years ago I had exactly the same copy, but with Soviet HSL red ribbon!

Interesting. More than just "interesting"? Are the fakers branching out, learning things we wish they didn't know??

And.

2-

As part of an ongoing effort to fill some library holes, I recently got in a copy of Feder and Feder, Auszeichenungen im Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit der DDR, not a "biggie, but a nice thing to have.

Inserted a couple of pages inside the back were two documents, a nice bonus.

1-

With some friends here on "home leave", I thought I'd drop down to the next level (though the comparability of awards begins to break down).

Just as eye-candy:

If you have any serious interest in these awards, you need to try to find (2nd edition I think was the last) Alexander Laslo's book on these medals (and the later articles in the Medal Collector which updated the book). It isn't easy to find these days, though. Some of the information given above is "borrowed" from it.

You have Document?

Yes he does, discussed elsewhere. Keep reading.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=16002

And, just for the sake of being complete, the certificate exterior.

The certificate interior.

To contribute to this thread, an item from the Dankwart Fehr group

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2455

currently here on "home leave".

Verdienstmedaille der Zivilverteidigung, gold

OK, I thought I knew him.

First of all, the photo you show or Magsarjav, William, is the same as is given in the 50th anniversary history (= picture-book) of the Mongolian People's Army and he was clearly one of the "great early ones".

Sandagdargiyn (Khatan Baatar) Magsarjav was responsible for the liberation of western Mongolia (and, presumably, got his "Hero" and Red Banner in that context). With the "passing" (= removal) of Sukhbaatar and Danzan, Magsarjav moved in as Minister of War when Choibalsan took over as Commander in Chief of the Army in 1924, though he held less power under Choibalsan than Choibalsan had enjoyed under either Sukhbaatar or Danzan. It seems Magsarjav tried to flex "deviationist" muscles that he did not possess and was executed sometime ca. 1925-26 (I can't find exact date just now) and Choibalsan moved to assume more and more power in Mongolia.

Until the 1970s he remained a historical non-person.

Does this help?

A real shame. These ego-boosting "Viagra Medals" do nothing more than discredit the man and his legitimate service. How sad.

Stupid seller!!

And stupid fake. This discredits generations of fakers!

And, even sadder, someone will probably buy this abomination!!

Ed, Sorry - I don't know his Russian spelling.

Found him. Cyrillic Mongolian: Maгсaржaв.

See:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10329

S. Magsarjav was awarded the RSFSR Red Banner in March 1922 (same time as Sukhbaatar and Choibalsan).

He was also awarded the title of Hero of Mongolia in 1936 (effective date of 24 April 1924) but did not survive to receive the accompanying badge in 1941.

Whataver it is, Unit 023 is named in his honor:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10218&st=58

Wearing Soviet (of nealy-Soviet) uniforms in the early days was common, and Magsarjav clearly goes back to "the beginning".

Shall seek more. I know I'm forgetting something obvious and important and need to remember what.

Yes, have been both to the former museum and stayed in the UB hotel on my first trip. And the statues were there then and were there in March. Unlike the Soviet Union, there has not been a full-scale crusade to destroy and erase history as has been the case in the former USSR. Statues have not been ripped down or relegated to an isolated corner in a sculpture park (sculpture zoo?) as has been done in Moscow. To find a statue of Stalin in UB is a bit of a challenge though, but there were always more of Lenin than of Stalin (the largest one is in what used to be a restaurant but has recently been transformed into a strip club, so the manager is -- understandably?? -- unhappy about foreign visitors with cameras). As has been discussed elsewhere, the sole act of post-socialist architectural cleansing was the removal of the Suhkbaatar-Choibalsan Masoleum from Sukhbaatar Square in central Ulanbaatar and its replacement with a Jabba-the-Hutt-like statue of Chengiz Khan; this has been so controversial that even if thought was being given to further "removals", I suspect it is now stopped. While graffiti has come out of the now-globalised cultural woodwork, it is more of the "Bat loves Delgema" type than anything political. More importantly, Mongolia is not the former USSA: It is secure in its recent (and distant) history, reslizes that parts were good and parts were bad (like any other history), and recognises its heroes. While history is bering continually re-remembered (as is true everywhere, all the time), new statues are going up not to the leader of the day but to old leaders. When I was there in March a new statue to Tsedenbal has just been erected; can you imagine Tsar Putin's Russia putting up new statues to Brezhnev? On many levels, the Mongolian embrace of their recent historical past seems so much healthier than the Soviet response, or even the more complex but intermediate Chinese path.

The one additional Lenin sculpture picture I can find is that of the young Lenin, outside what used to be the Baatarchuud headquarters (for whom Lenin was the same sort of icon as he was for the "Grandchildren of October").

Shown below. Will look for others.

Obviously highly "augmented" with (fraudulent of fake?) awards, but, under that, these seem to be nice tunics.

No, I think that what is happening is that "The Market" (= "Igor") is shaking out bits and scraps long since "harvested" for their choice bits. I have never seen so many fragments of medals as I saw in March in UB. Any piece is now "martketable" (if anyone buys it).

Not to weep over spilt research, but it is a BLOODY CAPITAL CRIMINAL SHAME that the research has been severed from the medals. Why do some seem to care not at all for the history, not for the knowledge, just for the THINGS and the MONEY.

Lock and . . .

From the victory parade video, some sailor clearly had no clue as how to wear his CBE (? or GBE??).

Sorry, Christophe. I bracket you with type 4.1 by 22521 / 24139. Close, but no coconut.

Hope others can help. Sending word to UB won't help, alas, as this one went MIA way off in northwest Asia (though nearly conquered by Chengiz Khan and his brood)!

The fakes are very "non-robust".