Ed_Haynes

OK, I have had it. I think there are more of these than there are aimag badges!

If anyone has any not shown here, could they please post them. (That is "anyone" of the three or four who read this forum!)

I am trying to come up with a key to these pesky things.

The problem. The serial number. Fraudulently added to a good unnumbered badge.

Still, a nice badge, with a price reflecting what has happened to it.

Badge 100% proper and of properly Mongolian manufacture, down to the screw-plate.

Just in a nice Medal "Gold Soyembo" type 2.

But with a problem.

Anna Seregeevna Mikitenko

Already discussed elsewhere, just to cross-link here. See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13340

Familiar-looking markings . . . ?? Where did he get this plastic? The mystery is revealed on the reverse of the hard plastic piece!

As we see on the reverse, he seems to have lost the plate and pressed into service a little silver of plastic to serve as a ersatz screwplate.

All of us know the problems with the screw back plates on Mongolian awards. They get lost, they get swapped-out. You are never sure what is original and what isn't.

The recipient of this nice little badge The Best Driver Without Acctident (P 13) seens to encountered just this problem.

L 06 -- Honorary Medal of the Erdenet Copper Mine

A very un-Mongolian design (except, perhaps, for the little turquoise in the center). Made by Englong of Singapore. Reverse plain.

Sounds nice, Ralph. The problem is:

1- If you read the statute (OK, I haven't seen the final presidential text, have you?), it does extend to what we do as collectors.

2- Several lawyers had their say over on the OMSA forum as it was moving forward and did not come away with your cheerful reading of the statute.

It does seem the FBI guys who haunt OMSA meetings looking for Medals of Honor (not for Osama) will ahve more to look for this fall.

At least those who wrote letters tried. Phoney patriotism won out in the final analysis (OK, this is the US and the US Congress after all!). I hope the OMSA will be seeking some more visible and aggressive response.

I may be imagining things, but that looks like a portion of a Soviet Medal for Combat/Military Merit:

That, Eric, was exactly my thought!

How do US collectors intend to react ?

That, sir, is a very good question. There are, I think, at least two major issues before the OMSA now. It isn't clear to me

1) what the OMSA officers really did to try to stop this and

2) what they intend to do now.

I am exploring how the OMSA nomination process works.

As one of their last acts as they were being escorted off the premises, the outgoing Congress has passed the idiotic "Stolen Valor Act". In addition to dealing decisively with the non-problem of pathethic pretenders to awards, the law will apparently make virtually any trade in US gallantry awards illegal within the United States.

The President will, of course, be signing this piece of imbecile garbage into law as soon as possible.

It seems likely this this will virtually terminate the collecting of US awards within the USA. Overseas collectors may anticipate some bargains real soon now.

Happy I don't collect or study US awards.

Where did you find this? All the copies I have seen are, well, rather expensive. (More than one Order of the Combat Red Banner -- at Igor's prices!)

There are, I suggest, both legal and ethical/moral issues here. And, as usual, they only overlap up to a point.

Unless we are dealing with stolen goods or goods illegally smuggled out of the USSR/Russia (or unless we happen to be Russian citizens or reside there), I'd suggest the narrowly "legal" issues are limited. Or are they? There are international laws on stolen/smuggled goods and on plundered cultural patrimony (though the Elgin Marbles and the Koh-i-Noor seem to be stuck where they are and are bigger fish that this Red Star here).

The moral/ethical aspects are far broader, and (ought to be) far more troubling to us. But, then, these days, so few care about ethics or morals so long as you "get yours"? Sad.

On a related issue, maybe this is something many of us would just rather not think about, not talk about, and maybe the queasy feelings will go away. Or not.

If we really thought about it, most of us would (I hope) probably have to stop collecting, despite all our high-sounding blather about how we "preserve the history". That is why most of us try not to think about things we try not to think about.

A lovely and amazing group, and worth taking extra special care!

Thanks WC! Agreed. About all I'd imagine in would be a Friendship and, of course, a HSL!

Nice, a fascinating thing to have!

A lovely piece to add to the collection and also, to be honest, a lovely piece to have taken out of circulation. I had the chance to buy, and passed up on, a signature stamp of Tsedenbal, as used in awards documents. Now, in retrospect, I wish I had gotten it. Not only would I have it, but others might not have it available for their own purposes, maybe for making up fake documents.

R NIB 14 -- Order of Teacher's Honor

See also: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10840

Interesting. We have, I think, another case of materials recycling here. Looks to me like . . . well what do others think?

Are these pieces mintmarked?

And Polar Star only? As if this order needed another complexity!!

Will need to retrieve my friends from their off-site vacation spa and report (Monday?).

There is, of course, the constant possibility of serious mix-and-match with screwplates. While it is more of a problem with the badges than with the orders, we know how common it has been and still is (not all the screwplate-swapping has been done by our Ever-Helpful Dealer Friends, but has been practiced, I believe, by the recipients as well).

W 46 -- Spartakade of the Khuch Club

W 42 -- Spartakade of the Province Young Men

W 34a -- Badge of the "Ready for Labor and Defence" 1st class

There must be a 2nd class out there?

W 30 -- 1958 Spartikade

W 11 -- Sport