Ed_Haynes

. . . and . . .

More lovely uniforms . . .

Third generation rank badges. (There is some hope for a new book on Mongolian unioforms "soon".)

Among a number of flags.

Not a document you see often!

Another uniform (sorry, I neglected to note the name).

Second generation rank badges.

Marshal Demid's uniform and details

The first generation of rank badges.

Sukhbaatar's desk and office ornaments.

Flags from the revolution and liberation.

General view 2:

General view 1:

How's the weather? How's the cross-culture relationship? Are you melding in with them? Moving in? Meeting famous people? I am stuck in East Cupcake.... tell me more, more, more

Weather quite bizarre, usual Mongolian with 70 or 80 degree variability in aq single day, though snow on Tuesday, rain today.

Seeing friends and asking a range of questions -- more on that later.

The promised mosaic of Sukhbaatar as you enter the modern gallery at the military museum:

I (finally!) got to this museum today (with Battushig). Very much worth seeing. One gallery deals with, broadly, "Chengis Khan Stuff". I took no pictures there.

The other gallery is of more interest to me (and us?). Mosaic of Sukhbaatar as you enter the modern gallery:

To be corrected when uploads become possible.

To my experience, these are quite uncommon and very nice. The only specimen I was able to acquire (back when I was still getting Iraqi ODM, pre-US-invasion) was a miniature. A nice one indeed!

You must bear in mind that there is a sliding table of time-estimate translations working in Soviet phaleristic research similar to the one used in computer programming: If you're told it will take an hour it will take a day, if you are told it will take a day it will take a week, if you are told it will take a week it will take a month, if you are told it will take a month it will take a year, etc.

I suspect it has no "correct name" in English. Why would it need one? No one I know has seen the instituting notifications in the Gazette of Bangladesh, if indeed there is one.

The best we can do is a clumsy translation of some fairlyt inexact Bengali (or so my Bengali-speaking friends tell me).

SOMEWHERE in an earlier researched group thread we saw an officer's life unravel over two automobile tires appropriated for his personal use.

Yes: David Mironovich Sup'yan -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3728

There are -- no pun -- whole Mongolian flocks of badges like these.

That one went all over. Sometimes I wonder if they just closed their eyes and threw darts at a target for the recommendation!

Yet another VERY interesting (and unpredictable!!!) 3,6XX,XXX range Red Star.

Exactly my feelings, Rick. Those late wound awards are quirky ones.

The problem with any price guide is that they are never prepared in a completely selfless fashion. Moreover, they do drive the market. I have had village (and a do mean village) jewlers in the Indian back of beyond whip out copies of the Medals Yearbook. While they cannot read a word in the book, they see the pictures, can read the prices, and can instantly convert pounds into rupees and expect those prices. Let me see how many people in Ulanbaatar possess this new book and whether I can convince them that the prices quoted are in tugriks.

With great thanks to Bob, I now have this book in hand.

To be honest, it is a mixed blessing. The first (and second and third) impression is a very "Herfurth" one. Pictures (some very good, some apparently borrowed, some pretty muddy), curiously renedered names in German and English, a one-line numismatic description with very little additional information, and a price (in Euros).

There is not much additional information here, though he does go beyone Herfurt's coverage of the "core" items to include some (but scarcely all) of the "badges" given by Battushig. (There is a threshold of classification here which may need some reconsideration?)

I fear the main function of this guide book is, like the much-cussed-and-discussed Medal Yearbook among British ODM collectors, to be a price guide. Does anyone know who the author, H. Sonnenberg, is? I sense he is a dealer. A dealer writing a price guide = incest or onanism? At times I got the feeling he must have been in league with Igor, maiking Igor's prices look really really low.

To take as an example the Sukhbaatar Order (on which have a very very good thread, both on the order and on price trends of that order -- <a href="http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4230" target="_blank">http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4230</a> ): Bob's latest survey shows recent sales of a screwback for $3225 (May 2008, about ?2047) and of a pinback at $3200 (April 2008, about ?1584 then). Sonnenborg shows prices for the screwback of ?2500 (=$3942) and ?2000 (=$3154) for the pinback.

It gets more troubling when we come to the more "common stuff". As of today (soom to change?), Igor lists the medal for the 50th Anniversary of State Security (Battushig A48) at $30 (=?19), while Sonnenberg's guide quotes ?100 (=$158). For one more example, the badge for the title of merit (A8). Igor has one (unnumbered) at $85 (= ?54); Sonnenberg shows this unnumberd at ?65 (=$102) but numberd at ?200 (=$315); makes you wonder how many are being "numbered" even as you read this? Or (and I'll stop now) a Order of the Combat Red Banner, 3rd award (A23.3): Igor $1995 (= ?1266), Sonnenberg ?2200 (= $3489). Whew!! And I think most of what we see of these are unawarded bank escapees!

While I shall be taking a copy of this to Bat, I shall ask him to treat this as a TOP SECRET item; the thought of this book, with these lunatic prices, falling into the hands of Ulanbaatar's suppliers of awards is a source of abject terror. Yet, I'd wager that they have it already and gleefully intone prices takes from its pages. Be afraid, be very afraid. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, . . . .

In terms of information -- always more important than PRICES -- there are some odd points and I'll touch on a few:

-- The author seems to be mostly unaware of what we have done here, in terms of typology and approximate numbers. He quotes numbers awarded and datyes (I think he, like Herfurt, just makes up this information). His information, for example, on the herder badges (I said I was going to ignore price figures, right?) is interesting, but one is left wondering on what he based this. Who would have believed that J03 was "ca. 1930", while the mirror reverse J02 was "1930-1950"? Personally, I don't. I think Sonnenberg is just making this stuff up. False facts get into the collective well like poison and we need to be careful here. But, maybe, information was not his primary intent.

-- He shows that bizarre horizontal order iof Civil Valor that Herfurt also shows (Herfurt M8.1, Sonnenberg OM35, NIB). What is it? Must ask Bat.

-- He does give good images of the two marshal stars, and for that we should be grateful (OM16 and OM17).

-- He replicates some of the confusion -- derived from Battushig -- about golden and silvered varieties, ignoring the ready evaporation of already-light gilding (for example: titles of merit, shock worker badges, state security badges, etc.). He even goes so far as to invent fantasy dates of award for these "types".

The pictures are pretty (sometimes -- though the Sukhbaatar images are especially ugly), the information should be taken with a grain of salt, the prices should be taken with several metric tons of salt. Yet this book is (as they used to say in the "X-Files") "out there" and many will consult it who may never know of Battushig's still #1 piece of work. I am not in any way sorry to have acquired this 132-page book, but in no way can I retire my now rather tattered working copy of Battushig. Maybe the best hope is that this little book will have its prices ignored (fat chance) and, more importantly, will fertilize the field for new, more serious, researched material on Mongolian phaleristics. I shall certainly be bashing Bat over the head with it in a few days.

Other comments?

As always, still more rersearch to do . . .

Translation.

1. Last name, name, and patrionymic: Alimov Giez

2. Rank: Reserve Sergeant

3. Duty position, unit: Rifle Squad Leader, 473 RR, 154 RD

Application for the Order of the Patriotic War II Class

4. Birthyear: 1924

5. Nationality: Uzbek

6. Party membership: since 1947

7. Participation in combat: in the GPW from 12.1942 through7.1944

8. Wounds or shell-shock: seriously wounded 11.7.44

9. Armed Forces service: 3.1942-7.1945

10. Inducted by: Pastdargom Regional Military Commissariat, Samarkand Oblast

11. Earlier awards: n/a

12. Permanent address: Samarkand Oblast, Pastdargomskii Region, Beshnaimen Collective Farm

Short Description of Combat Feat or Accomplishments

Comrade Alimov giez was an active participant in the Great Patriotic War in the defense of our Homeland. He fought in the 473 Rifle Regiment as a rifle squad leader from 12.1942 through 7.1944.

On 11 July 1944 during combat he received a serious blind shrapnel wound of his left hip with damage to the hipbone. This wounding is verified by an information memo from EvacHospital #5954 dated 26.6.1945. At the present time he is a GPW Invalid, III Category.

He works as a teacher in School #31, Pastdargomskii Region. He receives positive work evaluations.

In agreement with this awarding are Secretary of the Pastdargomskii Regional Party Committee, Comrade Sharadzhabov, and Chairman of the Pastdargomskii Regional Executive Committee, Comrade Khudaikulov.

Conclusion: For active participation in the Great Patriotic War and receiving a serious wound, he is deserving of the Order of the Patriotic War II Class.

Signed Pastdargomskii Regional Military Commissariat, Lieutenant Colonel Chuchin on 3 May 1967

Recommended downgrade to Order of Glory III Class by Acting Samarkand Oblast Military Commissariat Chief Lieutenant Colonel Giyasov on 28 July 1967

Endorsed Order of Glory III Class, Military Commissar Uzbek SSR, General-Major Karimov on 4 September 1974

Awarded the Order of the Red Star after review #052 of the Turkestan Military District dated 13.11.1967, signed Acting Chief of Forces, Turkestan Military District General-Major M. Pekhterev on 6 January 1968