seb16trs

THANKS A LOT FOR THESE INFORMATIONS!

Hallo,

what is the material? There must have been a lot of them beeing produced. I found them in an old NVA camp in GDR when NVA was finished. Some are made of a kind of plaster and some were made of metal . A lot of them were not finished. Even the form for producing the plaques was still there.

regards Frank

I never seen anyone on the web ...

it is a wood plaque with thihn red velour-like cloth, and a thin brass sheet.

To all:

Ed reinforces my long-held contention that unless/until substantive published works detailing WW II Red Army soldier valor hit the shelves of major book sellers in the West, little forward progress will be made. A review of the offerings found in the military history sections of any major U.S. book seller e.g., Waldenbooks, Borders Books, or Barnes and Noble, will confirm the absolute dearth of books on this topic.

While select specialized books authored by members of this forum have held great appeal for the Soviet ODM collecting community, their very low print volumes and basement/garage distribution systems did little to advance knowledge among a broader English-speaking military history audience. One exception, however, would be Henry Sakaida's works which did enjoy wider availability.

My personal goal in continuing to work on a comprehensive English-language book which examines the Full Cavaliers/Knights of the Order of Glory is to help fill this void.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Slava, both your point of view and Ed's one complete themselves. But will there be a demand from the public for such an equilibrate history? As Ed pointed it, this could be a cold war consequence.

Most of what I have are things that have come as a part of groups, though a few single ones have "happened to" me, almost by accident.

Without a good reference book (thank you Paul), these are impossible to collect. But, given prices, they may be all we can afford. And they are about the only place where a beginning collector could start. But so few dealers bother with them, realizing that a six-figure group means more profit that a single-figure badge. Yet the badges are (so far) legal to export from Russia.

thanks Ed, I share your analysis.

I'd be happy to know how many we are (I reached the point where I've got stuff to trade and a serious collector cannot progress without sharing infos with others).

hello Ed, do you have many badges?

to all: are we a few to collect those?

thanks! sebastien

No, please have a look at the graph at my first posting at this thread:

The Euro lost a got deal of it's value against the Dollar - that's a fact.

And you have to consider the constantly growing demand for Soviet items by Russian collectors over the last years.

So, there is no point for a "compensation" you might expect, I guess.

It's a long time ago, when the Dollar had been stronger than the Euro ...

Best regards

Christian

there's still a 20% shortfall against USD. We can suppose the US market is dry, so the effect of russian demand will depend on wether they pay in USD or euro...

But Igor increased dramatically its prices. I can concede to you maybe Igor will not raise its prices, or just a bit.

And you have to consider the constantly growing demand for Soviet items by Russian collectors over the last years.

so if demand is still increasing just explain to me why should we expect prices to lower?

So, there is no point for a "compensation" you might expect, I guess.

It's a long time ago, when the Dollar had been stronger than the Euro ...

?? do we practice the same economics?

I guess, you typed wrong and you wanted to type: Igor will DEcrease its prices .....

Otherwise your message will have now logic ...

Best regards

Christian

explain me why please? since USD is weaker than euro, he has a shortfall to compensate...

this topic is a curious thing. Maybe can we expect a correction on common orders and medals (red stars, CSM, etc) but do you really expect prices to significantly fall? Altough this Glory set went from 26000 to 22000, it's still worth 22K :speechless1:

Igor will increase its prices in dollars to correct the euro/USD parity. He already did so.

please does any of you know how this medal is linked to the wall?

lenght: ca. 25cm

If you mean 2 nd cl. in case and doc - yes,this picture from ebay,I'm sorry that I missed it there.

Can you post good picture of doc?

here is your picture

many thanks to Carol who found an article in a romanian phaleristic review.

first conclusion: my 5th class star doesn't belong to the original group: the small diploma is dated 1959. With unnumbered awards, put-up is always the risk...

many thanks Anatoly. I still remeber the 1st class type 1 star with box and diploma that was sold by Igor M. many years ago. Very expensive.

You show a 5th class type 1, with a large diploma to George Sprinceanea: it is mine! you took the picture on ebay?

Interesting, it's the first time I see this type. I wonder whether it was an official model or only a pattern from the mint.

this is not specified by this russian source; but I believe the guys from this forum know what they're talking about (Anatoly and Bolgarin post in our forum)

As I said, there are only three types described:

1. RPR enamelled star: 1948-1964

2. RPR metal star: 1964-1966

3. RSR metal star: 1966-1989

Do you have an image of the fourth type?

here it is what they call the second type.

3rd

4th

Hallo seb 16trs

looking at the pictures in one of my auction catalogs, I can give the following:-

The Order of the "Star of the Romanian Popular Republic" 1947 - 1965

or The Order of the "Star of the Romanian Socialist Republic" 1965 - 1989.

hello Kevin, thanks! I forgotten the 1965 year when Ceaucescu proclamed the socialist republic...

so the 4th type covers 1965-1989 period.

I have found a reference to an OMSA article by Charles H. Pankey on the communist Order of the Star of Romania.

hello Carol,

does it cover the 4 types identified by russian collectors?

hello gentlemen, here's a global view of a group picked up directly from Romania. Everything documented.

and of course, a technical question: I browsed the russian site http://sammler.ru/ and I need some datations. Do you know when they switched from one type to another?

our Russian fellow determinated 4 types about "star of Romania" order:

1st: "plate" star with nice red and blue enameled center

2nd: big relief silver plated star, center with RPR coat-of-arms, "RPR" title above.

3rd: as above, without "RPR" title

4th: as above, RSR variation...

thanks for yours highlights (I know there exist a romanian blue book and a german book about orders...)

Ulsterman,

Re the Post Communist era forum. There is a growing number of collectors in Hungary who are moving into the 1957 and onwards militaria for the same reason most of us moved out Third Reich stuff.. The fakes of the Rakosi era, which has been the most active in recent years, have got to be so good that experts can not tell the difference.

hello Gordon, this is a frightening situation... which fields are infected with fakes? cloth? orders?

Collectors are a funny bunch (at least some). They'll throw thousands of dollars around to buy elusive items yet complain like the sky is falling over a $10 shipping charge or a book that's $20 over their assumed value

I still believe the PMD is THE starter book to buy for a novice collector, before throwing in deep waters of Mondvor classification.

Because few books put phaleristics on such precise and scientifical basis. PMD is in my opinion a landmark in phaleristics pedagogy, I never saw equivalent books (maybe in Germany where exhaustive catalogs are a traidtion).

Because PMD proposed a classification, examination of mintmarks, of basic fakes, documents. This synthesis is not common in books, or we must look in a jungle of articles and monographies.

To penetrate the codified world of medals, it is a kind of exemplary book.

Once you read PMD, you can go forward in medals variations following batch numbers, as established by the russian community. It is sure PMD could double the size of his book in a second edition...

Is the Paul & Paul book flawed and outdated? Certainly.

What else is available in English that is as good? Nothing.

The fact that better things are out there, in whatever form, only in Russian is totally irrelevant to many (most?) of us.

Ed, I politely don't agree on this last point.

First I started to learn the langage as hard as it can be; secondly I would say everybody can understand the logic classification with associated pictures that Kaufmann and Pak created.

We live a kind of war with fakers; so every knowledge must be used...

Christian,

Stop being so defensive if you want to have proper discussion with fellow collectors - just submit a proper clear focussed shot of the reverse. At the moment your arguments seem too petulent and are hardly conducive to a serious dicussion between collectors.

Keeping an open mind is what helps people move on in collecting, and when needs be, learning from others who at times may know better. If you do want real constructive feedback then please try to listen to what other collectors are trying to point out or ask for instead of trying to convince them of your arguments when you have not even posted the most important picture of the reverse!

Regards,

Jim

i second this opinion. And please bear in mind there were already good fakers in 1993 (PMD's book dates from 1995 and he didn't establish his statistics observations within 2 months, so faking problem didn't burst in only one or two years). There were already a collector market in the soviet union years...and consequently a fake market

seb16trs,

And the reverse of the Order of Merit for Socialist Hungary please.

Regards,

Gordon

at least! sorry to be so late ;)

and reverse. Do you confirm this opinion?

look at the hammer and sikle in the small enameled flags... It isn't the correct drawing. And the brand new aspect... only the general badge at the top looks genuine.