seb16trs

ok! the "party dues" stop during the 1976 year (60% of the booklet)

thansk fr your input! I beleiev this man died in 1976; but I can't traduce the hand-written lines on the right page...

hello gentlemen,

as far as I can remember, I never seen this doc in this section. I had the chance to find this booklet for a few bucks in Ciney, Belgium, lost amongst a pile of junk.

I'd be happy to have some lights from hungarian-speaking fellow members :rolleyes:

ok Rick, thanks a lot for your - as always fast - input! I had forgoten BM was for 10 years service and Lenin for 25 years.

About the first veteran ribon bar , I believe to have been extremly lucky as it has a clear history streaming directly from the veteran to Paul's pocket, and it bears a suvorov 3rd class ribon... a group nearly identical to one I own.

and a serie of duty officers...

I'd like to discuss them. They could not be legit, but I honnestly believe them to be so. I think we could discuss various hypothesis about them.

the 1st left: red star and medals for military accompishments for a 1960-70' officer?

the 2nd left: a full career begining just after the war (full serie of military jubilees), a VoG and BM for WW2 accomplishment, a red star for 10 years and then 2nd and 1st class of irreprochable service?

the 3rd on right: a classic short bar for a 70-80' officer?

thanks for yours opinions! ;)

second serie: 2 "classic" veterans bars

on the second one, on the right, could we consider the last ribon (VoG) as a cloth for the 25years badge?

for your viewing pleasure, I'd like to borrow Ed's topic:

3 veterans ribons bars; the first one is coming from Paul Schmitt's estate.

Dan,

Down the slippery slope you go! Nothing wrong with collecting in a new area. Keeps the brain working with the research. I've seen a few of these LM tunics for sale but passed as I have simply run out of room. Just a couple of comments.

1-I get the impression that you did not pay a lot for this tunic which is probably good;

2-the tunic comes with lots of badges and a large ribbon bar and those will be fun to research but I doubt that they were origninal to the tunic. I would think that someone who acquired that many medals/badges would have to have been around long enough to have a fairly high rank in the organization and I do not see any indication of rank on this tunic. Hopefully, some knowledgable member of the forum can make more useful comments than mine, which are meant to be constructive, and not meant in a negative vien.

Regards,

Gordon

hello, I believe too this is a great idea. But you must choose between a service jacket (with ribons bar and a few insignias) or parade one (full medals).

I believe there're too many insignias and the ribon bar is too big for a simple soldier; the good point is to find some doc'.

I see a proficiency badge for army, a distinguiehed soldier badge, a big LM badge... I'm not sure this jacket deserves all of them. But this is a very good start! Those jackets are not easy to find...

I have found only two even remotely useful sources on PRC awards, both in Chinese.

Illustrated Collection of Badges in the Chinese People's Revolutionary Military Museum ([beijing: 1980]; ISBN 7-80603-104-9)

One of the two standard books, this one has become scarce in recent years, though some of the better Soviet medal dealers occasionally stock it. The book is entirely in Chinese, but is usually sold in the USA accompanied by a Xeroxed set of translations of the photo captions. While the translations are less than elegant, they are a great aid to the mostly-non-Chinese-speaking phaleristic world.

Hard to find these days.

please try at Andr? Husken's Gallerie d'histoire (Hamburg, Germany); he has an electronic library.

hello, this is not the sell-trade section...

My last argument

100 % original Star.

Simply to compare!!!

hello Anatoly, where does it come from? Museum??

Yes. Type I & II are concave. This Type III is flat.

Doc

which is your source establishing I,II and II variations?

This is an interesting variation of the Order of Virtuti Militari Grand Cross Breast Star. The Star is flat and has a screw post attachment.

Doc

variation you said? ^^

first, we must fight with good documentation:

In different sources different quantities of awarded are specified. I think it is because there were awardings cities, military units, and also small quantity awardings in last PRL years.

the figures change following the dates specified for calculating total amounts. PRL did award commemo medals until 1992.

The definitive reference is Stephan Oberleitner. A seller propose his 3books on allegro.pl (domel103)

Lady and Gents !

Do you know that, for example ,Order of Grunvald 1st class was awarded 59 times only!

There are a few people who just SAW original ! I never saw.All that huge quantity of these order which is on sale now - modern copies.

I cannot even imagine how many one such award can cost. 200 000 euro? 400 000 ?

Kris,how many you paid for yours? I am sorry for a tactless question. I don't remember in my collection's life this order in sale.It made from real gold in Mondvor after WW2 and awarded people were high ranked generals and first persons of the countries.

This is your picture, Kris :

It seems dark and light falls sideways.

And picture of the same order from russian site ( I can't be sure abt originality too ) - just for example of a qualitative picture.

I might be wrong but 1st class is made of solid gold, 2nd and 3rd of solid silver. I've one 1st class, in Germany they're listed as "1992 sammleranfertigung", i.e. collector copy. I had several of these in hands and they're not in silver, just cast metal..

Maybe the the ribbons were stored next to something that rusted? It looks as if the bar was kept in a damp environment. I have seen lots of old blood stains before, and the stains really does not look like blood to me. I would think that he would have replaced the ribbons(at least) had they been so damaged in battle.

I agree; this is clearly rust colour 5i work on restauration object and rust is too familiar to me ); these ribbons have been stored next to a rusty object for an unknown time...

hello, I read my reference and found that in 1987 1487 medals have been awarded. This medal is not extremly rare and avalaible within the 50-100 euros range. This price is for me a disturbing point because it is not at all in connection with the extreme rarity of the medal...

I would LOVE to see the Edwald Munshke medal :love:

I don't feel easy with the spanish war medal - not this one shown here, because I don't have definitive criterias to discuss about its authenticity - because they were awarded to a few hundred persons. I'll look tonight at ly polish reference source to give you the good number.

In fact the only medal I'm sure about is a one being part a of the DDR general Edwald Munshke set. This big set was sold in a Carsten Zeige auction two or three years ago. Some fellow members of this forum did purchase some pieces, and I believe one of us has a unquestionable medal with its doc...

bonjour Christophe, I have received my "standart" copy this morning.

This is a nice book, not as precise and deeply investigated, documented and categorized as McDaniels' old classic, but it fills a huge gap. Doesn't fill it up totally, but still nice book to have.

wow! well, I'm late and I need some more time to gather all datas; many thanks to everyone who pmed me and added somme infos here; I'll post all datas here.

I hope this database will help us.

Very Nice Stogieman !

Why did Romania, BUlgaria, Hungary, Poland ? All got their orders in different beautiful boxes but their big brother

USSSR gave them away in most cases , in nothing at all?

I looooove boxes, may the box lovers of the world unite !

Christer!

ehe, I call them "crocodile skin boxes", typical of the RSR-era.

you've got a Romania Star of 5th class, the communist version of the traidtonnal royal order. It is a second type (the first one was an enameled red star with blue lines upon sun rays corolle). The ribbon isn't legit (for Labor medal, but I'm not sure).

hello; you got it at Ciney military fair?

"Hmm a lot to find out'

THAT is what makes collecting different new things so satisfying, for me. Third Reich? Early Days, unknown things?

well, gentlemen, no more than 3 red banner given on an april 28th, 1955; in the same range number 21-22000, s/n corrected...same handwritting... good or bad???

is that april 28 a specific day (like army day?)

thanks a LOT for this Stogieman!

I like it! same stamp, same scale number for the 1955 year... and your red banner has not a serial number? (this is a point which could be forgered and yet happily has been not).