seb16trs

I'm trying to establish a database about bulgarian docs... as the orders are not numbered, but a few early ones, I'd like to find a chronological cohesion by examinating awards booklets serial numbers.

First, I use a rough classification for the docs:

* type 1: large rolled diplomas which followthe royal era tradition, awarded between 1945 and 1950-1955?

*Type 2: small booklet, with only one page for the entry, followed immediately on the right page by the reglemenation pages; this type is nearly identical to the 1945 soviet orders booklet.

* Type 3: small booklet, but two pages for entries; the left one bears award name, the right one bears a table with ukaz number and date; color pages is orangish.

*Type 4: nearly identical, but pinkish pages and bears in background the 1971 coat-of-arms.

*Type 5: from 1986, a double entry page, with recipient and order names typed, we don't see booklet number on these two pages.

I believe serial numbers start from zero at each new type isued, while the Soviets used a same number scale for all their booklets (with help of alphabet letters they covered 50 years from 000000 to L-000000).

any comment, help or kind advice will be greatly appreciated

this one is more suspect:

the award number has been clearly forgered.

what puzzles me is the nice ink writting: the same on the two booklets.

I've seen other identical handwrittings (differnt style from this one, but all are nice and elegant) on others docs on the net...

this one is more suspect:

I believe it genuine, as the photo seems legit. The awards book number seems correctfor this periode.

hello gentlemen, I'd be happy we examine together our red banners and their docs...

here are 2 docs; I suspect the second one o have been forgered. They don't have their right order (numbers do not match, I bought the sets as it is)

Wow - many many thanks! With a rack like that - it confirms the sotry even more. I wonder if there is any way to research his Soviet files???

hello, I would be extremly happy if you could show us some details of the embroided pilot wings on the right chest, and how are stiched the lapel embroideries... many thanks! Sebastien

My opinion, that the discussing award is non awarded item from the last period of communism in Chechoslovakia. I saw many orders of lust period and all of them were very bad in quality........

hello, any news about this order?

hello Anatoly, what must have a genuine emission compared to this one?

Definitely a fake, without a hint of a shadow of a doubt

Marc

hello, never the Mint did such such a deep engraved number...

and the pebling ("lunar landscape") reveals heavy polishing.

hello, see this booklet for sale on "E"... the stamps do lack... should we consider this as a fake or is the 1970 date an explanation about the absence of any stamp?

Rick,

The boards are M45 without question, now, they could have been (and most likely were) produced in the 1950's.

The question remains about the stars, which are of a type and style that I have never encountered before on Soviet uniforms.

Marc

hello gentlemen , I put off the star and saw differences in gold patina on the shoulderboard. The bullion is clearer under the stars, so I can conclude they've been screwed some years ago. Would it be a wearer fantasy?

I advanced the bulgarian hypothesis because I tend to believe the bulgarian stars are raised like those I shown you.

They look Soviet to me. Do you have a 'profile' shot? Are they domed etc?

here they are:

hello gentlemen. I had a pair of M43 infantery colonel shlouder boards. But I'm convinced the stars are bulgarian. Any insight?

hello gentlemen. I had a pair of M43 infantery colonel shlouder boards. But I'm convinced the stars are bulgarian. Any insight?

The same is sadly true of People's Republic of China items. ZERO collector interest-- and literally thousands of crude fakes.

that's what you believe, but chinese collectors market is now huge, and it seems what they leave to us is only fakes...

a little bit off-topic

I find the CSSrcoat-of-arms a bit crude; theoriticaly the czech coinage is fine and smooth...

I looked at my red banner of labour - late number- and it is analogue quality....

I don't think anyone was questioning the potential interest in socialist Czech awards. It is just that (1) very little appears on the market and (2) there are no good sources (in English at least). Now, if there is an active ongoing program of faking, . . .

hello, a poor picture coming from "ceeskoslovenska statni vyznamenani, statni cestna uznani a ceny", by Vladivoj Pulec, SNTL-ALFA, Prague 1980

but look at the excellent enamel finishing on the borders...

To Rick:

I'm sorry , CSSR ODM are very interesting .

All Czech awards have the original design and national details - I like it !

I can show some of my favorites here if you want.

And I stil hope to find here the professional answer...

To Seb:

Of course.Pictures are small but if you look on Red Banner order you can easily see diferences

I find the CSSrcoat-of-arms a bit crude; theoriticaly the czech coinage is fine and smooth...

Anatoly, I suppose you know this page:

http://www.vyznamenani.net/CSR/Rad_rude_zastavy.html

I find the enamel too "clear", too bright, as so as the gold-plating... but there're the 3 usual mintmarks on the suspension...

could the suspension a genuine one?

I emailed to him but have not an answer...

I reserved and paid one copy; I got a confirmation mail...

hello Christian

please could you explain your point of view?

I think so.

I like the photo though.

and ofcourse, the stamp! was is readable?

Friends,

Interesting update on this group.

I just talked to a person who bought this group earlier last year. Upon buying the group he ordered research and the research confirmed that last three awards were added to the group.

Again, kudos to your comments, you were right on target!

William

hello William.Should we suppose the photo has been added too (a researched file from an officer often shows a photo)?