Tim B

Hi Rob & JM, My thoughts on the "Mnfg" vs "Mfg" issue is probably nothing more than a simple typographical error IMO. We see this from time to time and probably just an oversight. Tim

Hi Rob/JM, Oh, no doubt! There are at least a half dozen that "always" have these items for sale; either with these bogus clasps, made up combinations of genuine clasps, modern ribbons (color & material not period), and in a couple cases (I think you know who I am referring to ) even the medals are fake. Usually, as Johnny pointed out, the background colors are the same for several listings on multiple occasions, so you get used to seeing them. Makes it easy to weed out so you can search other sellers. Only used the PICS for clarity in the thread, no offense taken Johnny! Tim

And the pin.

I showed these two earlier, but again, here's an example of the "reissue" medal. Note the "Defensive Sector" clasp is of the pin-type, while the other three are original clasps with the backstraps. As most of the issued medals had at least the Defensive Sector bar, I would assume these bars were depleted from stocks first and thus, probably one of the first bars to have to be remanufactured. I would then question if medals were put together with existing bars (backstrap bars) while waiting for the new stock of Defensive Sector bars to arrive. IF so, then that might explain why the decision was made to go to the pin style so they didn't have to continually remove the medal to add the last bar. Of course, it could be nothing more than manufacturing costs where two pins are cheaper than a full backstrap. Anyway... Tim US 4th Div:

These always appear made to specific entitlements (to the clasps awarded). Always seems to be the same reddish-pink ink. Tim

And then there are these types, without any manufacturer information. I have seen a few of these. Someone once commented they were official government (mint?) issues, but others thought they were smaller contracted outfits that were also authorized in the distribution process. Tim US 1st Div:

Here's an example of the Meyer setup:

JM, First, yes the three Vics I posted are in fact on ebay and obviously from the same seller. I thought it would be good to show some examples of the clasps and backstraps for those watching/reading in case they didn't know the variations. I feel sometimes a PIC is worth 1000 words if you can show what you're talking about. I don't own any unofficial ones, so I have to resort to using what I can find online at the time. Just can't own it all! As far as the boxes are concerned, I think you'll find they are a bit more complicated than just the "big three" of Jos Meyer, S.G. Adams, and Medallic Art Co. I have never seen the lower version of the Adams envelope you show, not saying it's bad, just something I have never seen personally. As the piece says "unnassembled", I might speculate that perhaps a contract was extended to cover replacements down the road or for those late claims of award eligibility. Only a guess here, perhaps Rob or someone else knows for sure. Keep in mind that there were official bars (clasps) made with the pins for "replacement" medals. Tim I'll try to post a couple of my boxed ones. Tim

Well, like I said, it was a guess! With that said, here's a Korean flag for reference and it has some of the same attributes, ones that I am not familiar with from any country in Indochina. Tim

My guess would be Korean War era with the center(Ying & Yang)motif. That would coincide with the dates Chris figured. Tim

Hi guys, Well, thought I better show these as examples before we completely get off clasps. The good things about having VICS all in one location is "One Stop Shopping" for information; bad thing is the thread can go in so many directions and often the track can get muddy. If there was a section just for Victory Medals, then the various threads can cover the different aspects separately and be more concise and provide a more valuable reference to collectors IMO. Anyway... Here are three examples of the French style reproduction pieces with fantasy clasps and the backstrapes marked "France" on the reverse. Not my pieces, so the PIC quality is what it is. Tim :beer:

Welcome to the discussion Johnny! Lots of good information here and something that will really help those starting out collecting US Victory Medals as so many have the unnofficial clasps and the ones with the narrow backstraps. Okay if you know what they are, but not if being listed as 100% period authentic. Hope we get more joining in with this level of discussion! Tim

Here's an interesting observation that might tie in to what Guy noticed with the Military Decorations; note the crown style differences and most notably, the difference in the "A". Tim

Hi James, Yes, almost the same type of setup (palm & lion style) shown on Bill Simpson's site under "The Great War". Tim

And a more recent acquisition: I assume the difference in Lion device styles is again something related to different manufacturers and not any timeline per-se. I also see some of these on singles and in groups shown on Bill Simpson's site under the "Great War" section. The ribbon in this case is a salmon pink color with stripes almost more yellow than anything else. It is faded, but even on the reverse, the coloration is pretty much the same. I also posted this item in the restoration section as the ribbon had been glued to a display board at some point and I had to remove the cardboard paper and glue. Think it turned out okay IMO. Tim

Thought I would bring this old thread out and dust it off with a couple of updates. Hopefully there are more with recent CdG's to post! Tim Here's an old one I had with a single Albert palm. Ribbon is faded, but the green stripes are almost a golden olive in color. Tim

A closeup of the area in question. You can see the ribbon is roughened a bit due to the glue adhesion, but still, I think it's better than if it had been left alone. Again, the glue appears to have been some type of epoxy and not white water-soluble (elmers) type. I think the results would have been even better had it been more soluble. Tim :cheers:

Again, no "before" shot, but here's a front/back of the piece afterwards and I am pretty happy considering I could be looking at blue paper backing and glue residue. Tim

Hi Sasa! Sorry for the delay; had some personal issues that have been taking up my time lately and am just now getting back to this one. Here's a composite of the sales PICS; note how the seller omitted the top portion of the reverse? Always an indication that something is up. Anyway, the top portion of the missing area was covered in a thick, medium blue paper backing (almost the same color as the PIC's background) which was glued on. I figure it was probably mounted on a display board. Tim

Hi, And yet again, another style of Albert palm(s). Tim

Appears to have beautiful details and almost like it was not something regilded, but originally made this way. Tim

Hi James, Yes, amazing what can be done, not sure why though? Tim

Here's a question for those in the know; I have seen gilded miniatures of the Yser Cross but, were there full size Yser Medals/Cross in gilt as well? Perhaps items specially made or refinshed for those requesting it? Tim

Hello everyone, I thought I would add a comment to this old thread after a recent attempt to clean a ribbon of glue similar to the one Carol started the thread with back in 2007. I just received a nice Belgian Croix de Guerre with several attachments and unknown to me when I purchased it, it had been glued to a board at one point and now there is glue residue and blue paper backing left on the reverse top portion of the ribbon. I am always hesitant to "play" with things this old, but I can't help want to try as I feel I have nothing to lose either, so... What I did was this; I started with warm water to remove the paper and hoped the glue would soften or dissolve if water soluble. I didn't want to use too hot of water as I feared it would fade the ribbon colors. Well, the glue was not a water soluable type but, figuring the glue residue would still be better than having blue paper showing, I continued. It did remove some of the paper, but not enough and then I slowly increased the temperature (I'm using tap water from a running faucet) and noticed the glue was not a white base glue (like Elmers)but a type of epoxy that slowly did start to soften and turn a lighter color. I finally got all the paper removed and seen a couple of areas where the glue started to lift. So, CAREFULLY and slowly, I used a small knife and pair of tweezers to scrape and lift the glue little by little until all that remained was in the grooves between ribbon rows, which after some time, I eventually got rid of that material as well. It takes time and paitience, but in the end I removed 99% of the glue residue and the ribbon, though discolored slightly from the glue, was not faded at all, despite using hot water to clean it. After that, I used a hair dryer to dry everything so I had no moisture left around the attachments. When I get a chance, I'll post a couple of pictures of the results. I don't have any "before" shots, but they were a little worse than the ones Carol posted on her example. Maybe I got lucky, but in the end I am very happy with the results! Sometimes you have to take a chance IMO. Tim

Rev.