Tim B

Here's just an edited side by side comparison of the two. I don't know, but I think collectors need to be watchful for these items. I personally would not want these in my collection, at least not as original issue items. Tim

Here's the seven bar example. So many questions on this one! Note the top two clasp are of this odd variety with larger stars and all the others are of the common issue variety. Interesting that the two clasps in question are very rare to see, especially on complete medals. Also, note it's missing the Defensive Sector clasp again and also has that bluish colored thread sewn to the top of the brooch instead of the official purple you should be seeing. Now, as far as combinations go, unless this guy did a lot of transferring between commands, I don't see how this set-up can be legit? Was it common for soldiers back then to transfer between commands like this? Tim

Then, there are these two that recently were listed as "but it now" items and sat for a few days before someone pulled the plug. Both are wrong IMO, and have a make up of mixed official and these odd clasps styles. Again, the combinations do not readily cross over, though the 5-bar combination could have been a person assigned to the US 3rd Division and he missed out on the St. Mihiel campaign. Still there are other issues with the piece IMO, including the top sewn thread appearing to be more blue than purple. Here's the 5-clasp:

Here's another example. Note all the stars are of this variety and the combination doesn't match up to any known units at a divisional level. I understand there are individuals that qualify for odd arrangements, but I see no occurances where some of these clasps could have been together. In this case, what could have been a 28th Div. example, the Ypres-Lys clasp doesn't belong and the medal is missing the Defensive Sector clasp altogether. Tim

I don't know if anyone else has noticed or not, but there is suddenly an increase of these type clasps for sale on eBay. I see them being offered both as unmounted individual items, and more recently, as complete medals made up with a mixture or entirety of these type clasps. All have these larger, more pointed looking stars instead of the common issue variety. I am starting to feel that someone out there is making up combination medals, sometimes with rare campaign clasps and impossible combinations, just to fool collectors/potential buyers. Tim Here's some recent examples: Note the Vittorio-Veneto clasp and stars.

I couldn't move the thread I started, so thought I would cut & paste it here and delete the other thread so it stays under the US section. Bear with me... **Star Question** I thought a good new topic might be to revisit the old topic of clasp variations we have noted in the past. In the old long-running thread, Rob had asked if anyone knew the origins of the clasps with the larger, more pronounced, looking stars. For the original discussion, see page 22, post 430. I'll post a PIC from that thread here for convenience sake. Tim

I never realized just how large this decoration actually is. Tim

Older thread but thought I would add an update in case Ingo was still looking. Plus, a shameless plug for Jeff here! The only comprehensive book on the recipients of the Air Force Cross. Covers all 188 recipients of this prestigious gallantry award. Never before published photographs of many recipients, appendices on origin and design of the decoration and statistics of awards. Foreword by Col. Conran, Air Force Cross recipient and National Adjutant of the Legion of Valor. 175 pages, softbound. By Frederic L. Borch & Jeffrey B. Floyd Only $14.95; can't go wrong! Tim

Hi Dieter, If you can show eBay the various seller ID's and the items, and can positively show details that prove the items are the exact same items you sent this guy and claimed he didn't receive them, they will take action against the seller. They may even refund your money previously lost. As Scott stated, you can sometimes get the eBay/Paypal system to eat the costs if they feel one party was wronged and it means a loss of business. It isn't easy, but they do sometimes pay up. Now, what happens after that, I don't know but perhaps they go back after the other guy. And to be fair, sellers are protected on eBay, even sometimes when they shouldn't be. Dieter knows who I am referring to. Tim

Yes, both excellent examples. I really need to sit down and re-photograph all my Japanese awards, as the lighting is just not that great in my current PIC's. Some of these are rather hard to get just right. Thanks for sharing! Tim

Thought I would bump this thread to the top as someone is having a hard time finding it. Here's a quick comparison of the different types of ribbons often seen on the Czech Vic's. Starting left to right, I believe the two on the left are official period, the third is commonly seen with re-issues, and the example on the right has a more modern unnofficial pattern ribbon. Hope this helps. Tim

Hi Lambert, Oh, very nice! Are these two actually mounted together or only shown that way? IF mounted, can we see a reverse shot? Yes, there seems to be an abundance of Japanese Vic's still available on the market and for some strange reason, they always command prices close to US $100.00 and I don't understand it. Tim

No worries Peter, I think many will be reposting items that were previously shown in the old thread. It's the only way to keep the conversations going, especially as newer members come in. I understand there are a variety of official ribbons that can found on these Italian Vic's. Rob and others will have more to add but once we get up and going a bit more, I think these would make a great subject in the ribbon section! I know Rob has answered in the old thread concerning the particular ribbons you have posted in posts # 9/10, so I'll leave it at that. Here's one of mine (S. Johnson) that has another one of these unblended ribbons like Bill shows in post # 4, though the pattern is different yet again. Thanks for posting. Tim

Hi Bill, PM sent. Yes, I have seen some of these that still can found with the issuing packet/box. Sometime back, I noted a French Vic in a box with a paper fold-out that had the Vic picture on it as well. Tim

Hi Bill, Yes, the guy has a nice site (French language only) and I understand is very knowledgeable on French awards. If you search through his pages, he even breaks down the various units and what awards they were entitled to. I used to use his site just for the information on fourrageres! Tim

My Sacchini-Milano is still my favorite; just a beautiful combination of aged coloration and near perfect details. Tim

Here's the other medal and note the positioning of the letters in relation to the lion's paws. Tim

Italian Vic's are so beautiful in design IMO! Bill, Not sure what to say on the modern ribbon, as there are many after market ribbons out there and the patterns vary quite a bit. I see them on the Czech, Romanian, and Italian pieces the most with the British and US coming in after that. Here's a couple of my Lorioli & Castelli examples. I don't have a "short" version but, these two are slightly different from each other as well. Tim

This one is marked both on the blackened brooch, as well as the reverse lower crossarm: The Whitehead & Hoag Company, Newark, NJ

There are so many different styles between the various states, citys, townships, etc. but, many designs are shared with other issuing authorities as well. Here's a nice little Oregon state issue. This design is shared with at least one other state that I know of and perhaps more than one. Hopefully as more medals get posted, we can start to assemble some form of database. Tim

Had some time tonight, so thought I would add what I have in this area. Here's two more boxed medals that were shown above already. Both still have the tissue and service ribbons in addition to the medals. These used to be fairly cheap when the lots were made available on the market and I think some collectors/sellers bought up entire lots and are now reselling them at much higher prices. I have also seen similar items showing the 28th NG Mexican Border Service and Missouri state Vic, but didn't get them back then. Tim

Happy to see more comments in this section. I don't have much to add personally in this section that hasn't already been shown but, will be anxious to see what gets added as time goes on. Tim

A reminder to all, please post your thread topics in the appropriate areas that are set up already. This helps consolidate all similar topics into one common area and benefits members searching specifically for a certain item/topic. I currently do not have the ability to move or merge threads or topics into another area within this specific "Inter-Allied Victory Medals of the Great War" forum. I can only move items outside to different forum sections or delete the thread/topic in it's entirety, so let's try to keep to those threads that have already been established. There are a few threads that were initially moved or started before we got up and running and those may eventually be moved back into their original places or deleted but some of that will take Nick's access to do. So, for example, if you have a topic related question concerning Brazil victory medals, post it in the Brazilian Victory Medal thread. Appreciate the patience and compliance! Tim

Very nice and these two seem to be the most common items that were making the rounds a couple years back. I also have both. Tim :cheers:

I'm going to close this thread so no new additional comments can be made here and instead, invite members to post their questions in the specific area they apply. This thread will remain for viewing past information but is now closed. Thanks! Tim