JapanX

Forgive him Lord he knows not what he does.

To say nothing about

Judge not, and you shall not be judged

That would be collusion. :violent:

Natural consequences of vertical integration

Close-up`s

"Stas" at the top

Very international clerk with 2nd class Lion (civil division)

Now amazing piece in bronze.

Destroyed bars and added (by cavalier???) swords (and what swords! )

Bronze

Gold

Nick,

Interesting, I have a friend in Flensburg who claims that some of the bronze-gilt early issues are actually Holstein-Gottorp pieces rather than Russian. I have only seen early gold and crystal pieces of Alexander Nevsky, so the large number of bronze/silver-gilt Anna pieces, and I am including pieces with long standing provenances including the ANS piece and several I handled in the 80's and 90's, are all privately made

Paul

Well, let`s see

As we know russian Kapitul was very strict (back in these days) about order returning policy (after the death of cavalier)

Frankly I don`t think that they would care that much if their orders were made in bronze.

But indeed some of our coleagues say that at least some (or even majority!) of the Kapitul Anna`s from the early days were made in bronze alloy.

No hard proof (at least known to me) for both veiw points

Anyway, I bet you are already bored to death with all my mumbling, so let`s hit pictures

Kapitul Anna in gold

This is all very disturbing that a few bad actors that are well positioned in the community would allow such pieces go through their hands and not say anything.

The most terrible thing Lars, is that some of them take active part in manufacturing of these peices.

It`s like vertically integrated corporation

Hi Lars,

these particular examples are modern fakes.

One on post #132 was offered for sal by one (quite famous) dealer about five or four years ago.

Now that`s where fun begins!

Piece in post #131 were brought to the (notorious) expert from State Historical Museum and he ...

said it`s 100% ok original piece

Master of the Horse Serebrjakov M.A.

I think that at one point the Russian military and the Persian military were so intertwined due to strong economic and military relationships, that Russians received standing Lion and Sun as well, and were treated as Persian military personnel.

Same thoughts here

Paul, as far as I remember all orders (even order of this early type) that were issued by Chapter (Kapitul) were made in gold.

Bronze = private (contemporary) workshops

GK + EK

Interesting group of miniatures (to put mildly )

I think the silver-gilt examples are duplicates for the owner & the vast majority are post war copies for the collectors market.

Yes these (and bronze ones) could be privately ordered copies for day-to-day wear (+ very often cavaliers sold their official "gold with diamonds" orders and were using these as replacement )

By the way, even the best source devoted to the RF awards doesn`t have images of the actual order

http://www.gosnagrada.ru/ordersuvor.htm

Nick, do you have any further FACTS about the circumstances of the award, please?

Aa far as know this order should has number 3 on reverse (all orders (not only Suvorov) with number 1 weren`t issued)

Here comes original line drawings

I am willing to talk about this "mess" as long as necessary

You constantly contradicts to your very self

What are you talking about?!

What responsiblility?

For what?

For providing new images of rare order (many of which you can`t "google") and awarding ceremony?

Then yes, I accept full responsiblity for that!

Perhaps I was mistaken about Nick's intent. But Nick could have prevented that by providing appropriate comments in the first place. In this case, a picture is not worth 1000 words.

One one thing is for certain - your own intentions are quite clear and obvious!

Now you trying to talk your way out of this mess.

Not very impressive job!

You asked

Ok.

So naturally I think he can`t read Ukaz.

Let`s help him out

No "thanks" and

And then you have a nerve to write

Two moderators.

One openly provocating a member to break the club rules.

Another one is simply insulting him and demanding to "close him up permanently"

Are they gentleman`s?

Hardly!

Unlike the movie we never do learn who is behind this deception.

One thing is for certain - he is good with his hands

to say the least but the museum copy is brilliant .

They even sacrificed one "stone" for the sake of authenticity

Yes, of course Basil Arthur Naden Woods.

Thanks D

At least they got rid of these rediculously looking "seals"