Chuck In Oregon

<<a secret watermark disappearing Stalin!>> I'm not even sure if "embossed" is the right word. The figure is actually raised above the paper, the two heads facing right as you look at the gramota, Stalin in front, behind him comes Lenin. It's a familiar pose. One thing for sure, it disappears when I try to scan it!

I think that your badge is for passing certain requirements to reach the Second Step of GTO membership. I have several of those at the first step, but all with the guy running to our right, and some like yours.

What I posted was, I think, presented as recognition of some sort of accomplishment, like placing in that big chess tournament. Thus the "Otlichnik" on the bottom bar.

I remember that you enjoy good documents. I'll post a few more soon.

I am still getting some outstanding things from Georgia. I just sent some money off yesterday to buy some groups and a collection of photos of Soviet (and some Imperial) soldiers in uniform. I'm really looking forward to seeing them. It's liable to be spring before I have them. Meantime, I'll post some of my other photos and documents.

Chuck

I was doing something else and I came across this April 1955 Georgian GTO Excellence gramota. It was presented along with a GTO Excellence Badge, like the one you can see on the document. This award was for taking second place in chess at the 1st Youth Festival.

I don't have the 1st Step Excellence badge shown on the gramota. So, instead, I have posted two 2nd Step GTO Excellence Badges, an early silver version and a later bronze example. The very early GTO Excellence Badges have mostly eluded me. You'd think that if I could find a two 2nd Steps, then a 1st Step should be easier.

It is particularly interesting, to me anyway, that the Stalin-Over-Lenin figure was still embossed at this late date. That's what's in the "empty" big circle at the top. There was nothing I could do that would bring this out in the scan. Too bad. Anyway, I thought that Kruschev was already into de-Stalinization by then. Of course, this was Stalin's birthplace. He never cared much for it ("that little place they call Georgia") but many Georgians worshipped him. A few still do.

I was a little reluctant to post this as I haven't seen much in the way of sports awards threads or just documents here. However, I think this is a nice piece, worthy of collecting even though it's not one of my areas of particular interest. If this is well received, I'll post some more documents in the future.

Chuck

George, that is an absolutely terrific photo!

Do I understand that he is a Cavalier of the Order of St. George? And an aviator, too? Tell us, is this one of your relatives? If he is, please tell us everything that you know about him. If not, do you have his name? He must be in the cavalier books, right? And, may I ask, is he wearing the exact same jeton that you previously posted?

I have some pretty interesting early aviation items. You have a museum.

Chuck

Seven??? That's very interesting. I don't think I have ever seen more than one jeton worn at a time.

Just today I received from Georgia several nice groups. One of them has two interesting jetons, one funny, inscribed, gold and silver jeton that he received for his birthday (undated) and the other a very intriguing 1913 military shooter's award of a type that I have never seen. That one is particularly interesting because this guy was a doctor. I have his photo and his medical badge as well.

Do you suppose it was permissable to wear a personal jeton, like this birthday gift, on a military uniform? Or are all seven of those jetons military issue of some sort? The more I see and the more I learn, the more questions I have.

Chuck

Well, darned if I didn't find another Fireman's Society badge in one of the drawers. I forgot all about it.

This looks like the same badge as the one in the middle of George's big image, "Badge of the Imperial Russian Fire Society". "Fire", according to Avers 3, but suppose it could actually be "Fireman's" Society.

Avers lists a silver and a bronze version. George's is obviously the bronze version. However, I think mine is silver-plated bronze. Could the "silver" variant be only silver-plated, like mine, or do we know that there was a solid silver variant? Or, I suppose that all of the silver plating (if there ever was any) on George's could have come off over the years. Mine bears neither proof mark nor hallmark. Obviously, I need to invest in better reference books.

Chuck

Unusual and rare photo to say the least.

There is nothing wrong with "DRV v SSSR". This just refers to the Peoples Republic of Vietnam embassy being IN the USSR, not OF the USSR or PART OF the USSR.

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Well, THAT makes sense. I tend to overlook the obvious. Thank you.

Chuck

Well as already mentioned the reason that he isn't list in my database is that he ran out of luck before the war. Here is what I got on him (though I think the name is Apse):

Martin Janovich Apse (1893-1942). Corps Commissar, Latvian, member of VKP since 1912. Assistant Commanding Officer XIX Rifle Corps on Political Affairs. In 1937 Member of the Military council (Political Commissar) Transcaucasian MD. Arrested and later condemned on 03.09.1939 to 25+5 years imprisonment. He died in the Corrective Labour Camps system in 1942. He was rehabilitated on 27.10.1956.

Kind Regards

Steen Ammentorp

The Generals of World War II

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Wow. That is some terrific research. Thank you very much.

All of the information fits this guy -- the initials, the RBC, the commissar rank, the Transcaucasus region, everything except the Apse v. Anse spelling. On further review, I can accept that it is Apse, even though the letter is inconsistent with the same letter in his title. Maybe that's just the nature of engraving.

As before, I get a strange feeling when I'm holding something like this. I'm sure that this guy carried and was proud of this little case and he probably felt relatively secure in his powerful position. Then, two years later, arrested and, for all practical purposes, condemned. What a fall from grace.

My hat is off to your research skills and knowledge. In addition, pleased to meet you.

Chuck

I have several variations of this badge, with hangers and with pins, but not the one that Danny shows. I think it is pretty hard to find that one.

This CCCP - Second Step variant, silver and numbered, is also hard to find and the only example I ever came across "in the wild".

Chuck

Chuck,

Is that paint or actual enamel?

Thanks!

Rusty.

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It's definitely enamel.

Chuck

I dunno... he's not on Steen Ammentorp's WW2 Generals database so maybe somebody got mad at...

him!

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Yes, 1937 was a bad time for commissars, too.

Good Morning Gentlemen

Ulsterman, you got it right.

Bill Dienna, nice to see you here! It was Bill who told me whom he thought this was, several years ago. Then, when I learned how to read a little bit of Russian, I found out that not only was he absolutely right but that my letter even said so.

Georgia was an ultra-secret republic after the war. Outsiders, particularly Westerners, just weren't allowed to enter, end of story. It was a good place for a secret meeting. In 1963, Vo Nguyen Giap attended a war-planning meeting there with senior Soviet military officials on how to conduct the coming war against America in South Vietnam. They didn't want him seen in Moscow at the time. This is an unpublished official photo of him there.

This attachment is a transmittal letter of this photo from the ambassador of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam to the commander of the Trans-Caucasus Military Region. Something that I somehow missed over the years: They actually wrote "ДПР - в СССР". I don't remember ever being told or reading that Vietnam considered itself either a current or pending republic of the USSR. Hmmm. Might that have changed some minds, back in the day? No, probably not.

This photo gives me a strange feeling. I flew with the 1st Cav in 1970-71. I keep thinking that this guy was planning how to kill me back when I was still a junior in high school. Oh well.

I thought there might be a few of you who would be interested in this photo and letter, especially if you are veterans or students of that war.

Chuck

This jeton also came from the Anse family, the guy whose cigarette case I just posted. It is dated 1923, as you can see. RBC - USSR is the Revolutionary Military Committee of the Soviet Union. I think, but I am not positive, that this was the governing body of the early Soviet Union.

I do not claim that this jeton came from the central government RBC. Of course it might have, but I suspect something more along the lines of a regional or republic (Georgia) RBC. I do think that this is not a presentation piece, however. I believe that Comrade Anse was a member of whatever RBC this represented and he wore it to proclaim that. Given that he was a corps commissar 14 years later, he must have been a real player and a true believer in the early years.

Chuck

Kim IL Sung perhaps?

Nope. Interesting guess, though.

... And here are a couple more pictures.

I hope you can read the inscription. It is "Корпускому комисару Ансе М.Я. 1937г.", or a 1937 presentation cigarette case to Corps Commissar Anse. If you look for a minute, you can also see a stylized MA. If the latch opens on the right, then the MA would be on the front and the inscription on the back.

There isn't anything special about the inside except that the straps that hold the cigarettes in are intact. Who knows, maybe they have been replaced along the way. The hinges are in perfect condition, no damage and they work well. There is an "800" next to the latch on both sides, and a hallmark that looks like maybe a beehive. However, on closer inspection I'd have to say that it is merely silver plated. I think I would have preferred to dig a little deeper and given him the real silver rather than risk having a corps commissar irritated at me. 1937 was a real bad time for that.

I bought a couple of things from his family. I'll post his jeton next.

Chuck

Well, actually I don't why he's smiling, but I do know who he is, and I'll show you the official letter to prove it, once someone gets it right. Yeah, the happy little guy in the center. I don't know who the other guys are, though.

Good luck.

Chuck

Here is Comrade Nasledukhov's embossed 1968 invitation to the 19th Kalinin Region Communist Party conference, held at the Sickle and Hammer Culture Palace in Moscow. The stamp on the back entitled him to a balcony seat. I don't know if that was good or bad.

<<Chuck, how do you manage to get your hands on all of these items?>>

I lived in Tbilisi for 31 months and there just wasn't much of anything legal to do there for fun. I prowled the one flea market constantly and I often bought boxes of documents, just to go through them in my spare time in order to have something to do. I became known as the weird American who would buy almost anything. Later on I became friends with some big-time collectors who helped me out a lot, and still do.

<<I would have suggested the plastic sleeves used for pictures >>

Yes, that would have been a good idea, but such things just aren't available there. Lamination was. Anyway, I kind of like them like this. People can pick them up and examine them with further damaging them.

Chuck

Yuri Gagarin became, as every (Russian) school-kid knows, the first man in space on April 12, 1961.

If you were a senior-enough Communist Party official, like Comrade Ivan Nasledukhov here, you got a formal invitation to the celebration parade in Red Square on April 14. This is one of those invitations. The reverse is blank except for a blue-pencil notation of the date, 4-12-61. You had to present your ID papers in order to be seated in the reviewing stands.

This was in poor condition when I came across it, in a box with some otherwise mostly uninteresting documents. It was very soft and had no strength at all. I knew I wanted to preserve it and I decided to have it laminated. I know that is anathema to many collectors, but I didn't have to ask anyone.

Chuck

Here are three Imperial length of service badges, one civil and two military, two for twenty years and one for forty.

All are the same general construction, a one-piece obverse clipped to a plate reverse (one plate is not solid) with a pin attached and the ribbon between. I think two of the plates are silver, one brass, but I'm disinclined to take one apart to find out for sure. Each obverse has traces (actually, the military twenty has almost all) of gilt, so they were once golden. The pins are proofed silver and they were also gilted. Only the military 40-Year badge is also hallmarked, and then only on the pin. The hallmark is struck at the edge of the pin and somewhat obscured, but it looks like ПА.

Chuck

I think the badge on the right is the 1901 25th Anniversary Badge of the Volunteer Fireman's Society. I'm having trouble with the word Двинское, which might be a derivative of the word for motor/engine/moving/advancing. The saying/motto could be something like For the Advancement of the Volunteer Fireman's Society. At the bottom is In Memory of the Jubilee.

The one on the left is probably a member's badge in one of the fireman's societies. The letter Р could stand for Русский, or Russian. The letter П probably stands for Пожарник, Fireman, and the O is likely for Обшество, or Society.

Just guesses from a beginner student.

Chuck

Hi Rick,

No problem.

I remember, Not too long ago either. I was talking with another collector of militaria and he used the term jeton..I had no idea what the h... he was talking about. So I bit the bullet and asked..

I guess thats the only way..since we are at it What is a FRACHNIK..I assume a MINI badge/award.?

Thanks

George

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Hey ... FRACHNIK? I think it does mean a miniature award intended to be worn on other than a uniform. HOWEVER ... I don't have an authority for that.

Most of my collecting has been in the nation of Georgia and with Georgian friends and collectors. Frachnik is a term they always used to describe those miniatures, and I just picked it up. Like many diminuitives, the word isn't in my Russian dictionary. However, it does show the word Фрачн/ый -- adj. of фрак, then фрак -- tail-coat, tails. I can just barely get my mind around using the word to describe a miniature award, something to be worn on formal wear, i.e. "Tails". Until this post, I never gave it a single thought. It could just be a colloquialism, I suppose.

I hope it doesn't turn out to mean "reclining chair" or something like that. Really, I learned this word from them and I've used it for several years. This is the first time anyone ever said "Just what the heck does that mean?" Good question.

Chuck

This is cool! It is like a language class. What are the rules of sentance formations and what are the verb conjugations?

Best, Sal

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Hello Sal

I'm pretty new here, and I always have trouble telling when someone is asking a question in jest or is really serious. I'm also a beginning-level student of Russian.

Just in case you were serious in asking the above, you could do a lot worse than http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/ . There are a bunch of conversational Russian sites on the web, but this one is more or less devoted to Russian grammar.

Sentence formation is pretty loose in ordinary usage. You can mimic English in subject-verb-predicate formation, but it will not sound like ordinary Russian usage. It's the six cases that really give meaning to Russian. And there are no articles, which takes some getting used to. Only three tenses, though, which kind of evens things out.

Try googling "Russian grammar". There are a LOT of useful sites. Check out several of them.

I enjoy learning, speaking and even writing Russian to the extent I can, which is rudimentary. I hope you decide to study it. I just thought that since no one had answered your question yet, I would give it a try.

Chuck

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the trans.

I may have mis identified the school..

I'll research this again

Having the name is Great!

George

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I think the И. У. may stand for Имперский Университет, or Imperial University. So, maybe the Imperial University of St. Vladimir graduation badge of Mr. V. Z. Krasovski?

Just my two cents, and worth every penny.

Chuck

What was the in-Russian name for these troops? Landsturm equivalents, "Home Guard" types?

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Well, I'm not positive, but may I suggest "Местная Власти", or "Local Authority"?

Chuck

Here are the officer and enlisted versions side by side for comparison.

Chuck