Chuck In Oregon

Here is the "enhanced" scan to highlight the cross.

Here is an example for your consideration. I have always believed it authentic and still do. It compares well with the above images. I have attached an "enhanced" image below that brings out the lines in the cross. Other opinions are welcome, especially if you can authenticate or de-bunk with some certainty.

Chuck

(There were only 48 then, not the 57 we have now. )

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Funny. Tacky, but funny. Missed it the first time around.

Chuck

My Avers-3 mentions only a 30mm gold variant. I've never seen one so I have no experience with the gold.

Chuck

Hello IG

I spent 16 weeks working in Yerevan in 2007. I lived at the Marriott and I think I visited the flea market at least once every weekend. There wasn't all that much else to do.

As you go down the steps from the open air tool sellers there is a guy on the left with a bunch of minor medals and badges. However, if you talk to him and ask him, he'll probably pull out his better things. I bought a few minor badges from him but what I value much more were some excellent documents and posters that he had. Check him out, he has a table next to the wall and his buddy has one in the center of the aisle.

After you go across the street and get past the book sellers there is a little old guy with a small stand, mostly some things along the low wall plus a board or two. He is a friendly and fair guy and he came up with a couple of interesting things and some good documents.

All the way at the back by the beer stands is a crippled guy with a couple of tables of badges and medals. He does a good business and had a couple of high-end things that I couldn't afford and some more ordinary things that I did buy.

There's one other guy on the left as you go toward the back, a small stand with some good items. He used to go up to Tbilisi a lot but he got in visa trouble for entering Georgia via Abkhazia, so I don't think he goes up there any more, at least not under his own passport. He probably had the best authentic items of anyone I saw there. There are LOTS of fakes there but I assume you already know that.

Of course, that was the situation in 2007 but I'd be surprised if it has changed all that much.

My time in Yerevan wasn't as enjoyable as the 3-1/2 years I spent in Tbilisi but it was OK and I'd go again if the opportunity presented itself. I spent a lot of warm evenings eating ice cream at the city park. Armenian food isn't as good as Georgian, either. Every time I asked about a good restaurant, somebody would say "There's this great Georgian restaurant out on The Ring." However, there is also a good Lebanese restaurant just around the corner from the Marriott.

Chuck

I wouldn't worry too much about these warnings if you have a decent firewall and anti-virus software. Web browsers tend to be quite paranoid. I had no problems accessing this page.

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Far be it from me to argue the point, especially with those who have carefully researched this issue. I've said what I intended to say. Others may proceed as they wish.

Chuck

When I tried to access the URL in post #3 I got the following warning:

Reported Attack Page!

This web page at ilpilot.narod.ru has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

Attack pages try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.

Some attack pages intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.

My browser is Firefox 3.6.3. I've heard that Firefox can sometimes give false warnings regarding legitimate URLs. Nevertheless, I'm not going back there. It's safer for me to believe the warning than to try to prove it wrong. Now I'm wondering if I should post a general warning to the board or just leave it alone. Any suggestions?

Chuck

I thought you might be interested in this display in Barcelona's Museum of Catalonian History.

Enjoy.

Chuck

Wow, 1977. I'm really impressed. If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your text into a document and use it in a small display.

Thank you for all of this.

Chuck

Thank you both. I knew about the Lenin but the family sold it previously. Day late, dollar short.

I may be returning to Georgia in the spring. I'll be sure to check up on the other watch and anything else they may have found.

Chuck

Here are two more examples. I'm confident of the authenticity of the one on the left side and equally suspicious of the one on the right. Since I've never seen a reference to this medal in other than silver I've always thought that this is a fake. The worn silver wash on the one on the right is pretty apparent, as is the strange color. Still, I kept it because, well, because I keep stuff like this.

Hello Ulsterman

Don't have a clue what was behind this sentence. In 1923 it might have been ties (current or past) to the Menshevik or White movements. Remember, Georgia wasn't conquered until 1921 and there was a major violent revolt in 1924, savagely put down by (I think) the 11th Red Army, re-named the Caucasus Red Army. There was plenty of opposition. I have 1-2 Caucasus Red Army items from that period. Pretty scarce stuff.

I also have 2-3 entire Cheka capital crime case files from the very early days, including one of a Chekist officer who was pardoned the first time, executed the second time around for being a train robber and gang leader. I found them at the Tbilisi Dry Bridge Flea Market years ago. When independence came the KGB archives were ransacked and a lot of this stuff was burned or otherwise destroyed or stolen. Some of it stayed around and you still find it here and there. No one understands why a crazy foreigner would want this stuff. I'd share the files here but I don't know how to post such voluminous things. I can't even figure out how to use them on my web site.

I've been around but not too active. I've spent the spring and summer supporting my darlin' wife in her battle with breast cancer. Surgery, chemo, radiation, the whole nine yards. She has five more daily radiation treatments to go, the next one in three hours. She is in the "burst" phase and is suffering very angry and irritating 1st degree radiation burns. Who knew? Anyway, next Tuesday is her last treatment. The prognosis is good. She had an unrelated cancer 13 years ago and this has renewed a lot of old fears but there are no indications for other than a full recovery.

The orphanage goes very well. One of our girls got married last year and lives with her husband, a young small businessman, and his family in Telavi. I saw her in March and she looks just great and very happy. I took her and a few of the oldest kids out to a great supper when I was there. It was a rare privilege. This year we're bringing in a tutor for the 12th-grade (equivalent) students who show college potential. I don't select them, of course, but our teachers do. The national exams are very difficult but if we can get some kids successfully through them they will be admitted for free. We have high hopes.

Always good to hear from you my friend, and to read your posts.

Chuck

Here's a pair of unusual documents. One is an execution order for one Sandro Ivanovich Gvsalia. The other is a confirmation message that he was, indeed, executed on June 27, 1923, in Senaki Prison, Republic of Georgia.

If this belongs in another forum, or if it is somehow inappropriate here, I won't resent it if it is moved or deleted. I post these as minor historical documents of some interest.

Chuck

And of course you want to see the interior.

Enjoy.

I know this little badge has been shared here before but you don't see many of the award books. So take a look at one.

Chuck

THIS THREAD IS DEDICATED TO SOVIET MEDICAL DOCUMENTS.

Doc

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OK. Are you going to share some or are you asking us to post med docs that we might have? I'm pretty sure that I have one or two if the latter.

Whichever, I'll follow this thread with interest.

Chuck

And here are the maker's marks up close.

Here's the reverse.

That is a very nice badge and quite hard to find. I really enjoy seeing Imperial aviation items.

Here's another example, this one by Eduard, or at least from one of his shops. The 56 proof mark didn't scan very well but it is pretty clear under a 10x glass.

Chuck

Thanks for reviving this thread. It's a good one.

Here's an obscure little badge from the 1957 Kirghiz Theater Festival. You remember that one, right? I conducted the Frunze Children's Little Theater play "All Rise for Comrade Krushchev".

Enjoy!

This image includes three police badges from Georgia, two of them from Tbilisi.

The top badge most closely resembles Aver-8 item 1836, which is an illustration only rather than a photo. It is also described as an RKM ranker?s breast badge, 1923-26. There are a couple of differences from the book. This one appears to be solid brass (and is definitely heavy enough) and has crude blue, rather than red, enamel and Georgian letters instead of a Cyrillic RSFSR. That?s as close as I can get. The blue enamel might suggest a GRU version, I guess, but my references don?t show one.

The lower two badges are specifically from Tiflis (Tbilisi). I think they are Tbilisi Criminal Investigation Department badges. I was told (but cannot substantiate) that the one of the left is for a detective/officer and the one on the right is for an ordinary investigator. The badge on the right does not have a badge number attachment but is does have a small ?24? stamped on the reverse.

None of my references show any of these variations. I suppose if I had a good "Badges of the Republics? reference I could check there. Anyone know where I might get one?

I'd like to see some of your early badges, so please jump on in.

Chuck

I?d like to start a thread on early Soviet police badges. Nearly all my things come from Georgia, including these first five badges, so that?s what I can contribute.

In the first image, the smaller badge on the left is similar to item 1841 in Avers-8 but with less detail, much poorer enamel and no visible design beneath the enamel. It is grey metal rather than gilt. Avers describes 1841 - the silver variant - as a hat badge for RKM officers, 1926-30. The example in the book is gilt or brass, a ranker?s variant. Replacement screwplate.

The larger badge on the right most closely resembles Avers-8 item 1849 which is described as an RKM ranker?s breast badge, 1923. The only obvious difference is there is no portion below the banner that might have born a badge number.

These examples are pretty crude, nothing like the quality of the RSFSR examples in the books. I don?t think they?re fakes, though. I think they?re just local rush-job badges from a chaotic period in a far-away republic. Neither appears problematic under a black light.

Chuck

A U.S. Naval Lieutenant Junior Grade was the same as an army 2nd Lieutenant, so would have been a 2-star Soviet Lieutenant, not a 1 star "3rd"/Junior Lieutenant.

Are you quite sure? If that's the case, what US Army rank would be the equivalent of a US Navy ensign?

Chuck

Is this really Bill Dienna? Where you been, Bill? They just let you out?

That's a great photo. WW II's smallest awards ceremony. In case of bad weather they could've moved it indoors... to a three-holer. Is there a story about how you came into possession of this picture? Nice find.

Nice exchange of awards, too. Good for the morale, will go a long ways toward establishing post-war harmony.

The poor 1LT must have arrived on May 10.

Chuck

I once attended a lecture at a local college about the Vietnam War. Someone left me a note, "F... you, Vietnam vet." No one, of course, would own up to the simple, anonymous and meaningless rant, only the most recent of so many by that date.

I've not been called a crybaby nor heard that word used regarding combatants. I have been called a babykiller, and more than once, each time by women who were safe in their assumption that I would not hurt them for their insult and blissfully ignorant that insults can bring non-proportionate responses. Others enjoy that protection as well but at the cost of respect.

Name calling and denigration of service aren't new or unique to Vietnam vets. In Chapter 47 of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's novel The First Circle you can find the following passages:

"Once she heard a young graduate student who was out to humiliate Shchagov ask him with a proud lift of her head, "What backwater are you from?" Shchagov had looked down on the student with a sort of lazy regret. Rocking quietly back and forth on his heels, he had answered, "You never had a chance to go there. From a province called the Front. A village called Foxhole."

And:

"The sufferings of Captain of Combat Engineers Shchagov could not be assuaged now, not in whole decades. He could think of people in only one way: either they were soldiers or they were not."

I was.

Captain of Artillery Troops Solzhenitsyn understood.

Chuck