Mervyn Mitton

Not to teach ' my mother how to suck eggs' !! The spelling of Politie also shows the 1913-26 period - I was told it is High Dutch ? A nice old item. Peter - why don't you post some of the swords under that section - I'm sure members would be interested and it doesn't get a lot posted.

Does anyone have a picture of the ship - it would be interesting to see 'original' and 'now' status ?

Thomas - there were no great battles in the Cape - mostly it was storage and preparations for the Relief of Kimberley. Probably a depot and they 'lost' it. I wonder if you could go over the farm with a metal detector ? I've got a good one - but, you'll have to do the digging - they are of course illegal on any designated historical site.

Probably well over 100 years old, this is a Zulu meat platter. Traditionally, in a larger Kraal, the Induna or, chief, will be served his food separately - with perhaps his favourite wives serving him. However, for everyone else it was communal eating and meat was put into a platter - such as this - and you cut off as you needed. They didn't have potatoes, but there were plenty of greens and veggies. (Sth. African 'slang' for vegetables !) They also make a very good stew. Look at the bottom of this platter - you can see the years of knives cutting into it. The other pictures show the reverse and the traditional ' amazumpa' carving. This is called the 'wart' design - however, Zulus are part of the Nguni people who came down through Africa, and eventually settled in Natal (now called KwaZulu Natal). This wart design is probably something they picked-up hundreds of years ago and have forgotten it's origins. Many experts believe today, that it came originally from West Africa and represents the crocodile skin. Until quite recently many West Africans had this design as a facial tattoo.

Brett - with your wealth of knowledge on KwaZulu Natal, I was hoping you would be able to post something. Like the 'pointed' bayonet, the Zulus feared and respected the capabilities of the British swords - and tried to copy them. Yours is not the first I have seen, but is probably the most accurate in appearance , with the guard. We had one a few years ago that was identical to an Iklwa blade - but was 30 inches long ( 75cm) - the grip was an old Victorian chisel handle. I have also seen pointed metal fence posts turned into a sword - of sorts ! Value wise, it has to be high - there can't be many left after all these years. Interestingly, the one we had, also was in a well sewn leather sheath.

Will - these last few posts have been most interesting and have raised issues which have been buried for years. I don't know a lot on this subject, so am keeping clear - - however, there is a comparison with an earlier period. Mahatma Gandhi was the Sgt. Maj. to the Indian Hospital Bearers Corps. and had approx. 20 Indians with him who acted as officers/NCO's - the numbers of stretcher bearers was in excess of 700 men and they did great work - under difficult and dangerous circumstances. Only the few 'leaders' were granted the QSA - which needless to say is a most valuable item with their inscription. Do you perhaps have anything on them ?

This thread will require a lot more information and - hopefully - some good pictures. The USS CONSTITUTION is one of the great ships of the United States Navy - she was prominent in the 1812 war with Great Britain and was a great threat to our Navy. She has the nickname 'Old Ironsides' and I believe is still preserved. The following two cutout pictures were made on the Island of Mauritius and all tourists tend to come back with them - or, full models. My contribution - now over to the experts....

I've never seen this buckle, Will. Looks as if they may have used the cap badge. This is contemporary with Cape Prisons and Orange River Colony - I wonder if they had similar buckles ?

Peter - a surprise to see such a good buckle added after a long period. The Force was broken-up in 1922 with the Dissolution of Ireland, but your lovely Victorian example is a very sought after item. The officers carried a standard steel and black leather sword - which are also rare. I used to have two, but regret selling them now. Are you a police collector ?

Tom - I have no idea where your longer spear comes from - with a join at the head , it wouldn't have the strength of the Zulu one. The other thing to compare is how the Zulu's worked the head from either side - whilst holding it in the tongs. This always leaves a spine in the centre. What other ethnic treasures are you hiding away ??

Helen showed a good rest - these are a few more - they allowed the men to show great variety in the carving. Probably all are around the 100 year old group.

Thomas - it goes back to the 1860's. The Germans - or, at that time the Prussians - were the World leaders in Army. Great Britain was the leader with Navy. The time had come to change the original uniform of 1829 and it was decided the twin tailed 'swallow' coatee would be replaced with a tunic - based on the German one of the period. This originally came to the knees, but was later shortened. The German helmet was also adopted - by both our Police and Army. The Police still wear the helmet - or, as Leigh points out, perhaps for not much longer. The blue military helmet is still worn by some Regt's for Bands et.. Traditionally, the Army have a pointed spike for Infantry and a ball top for Artillery. Some Police Forces still wear a ball top finial to the helmet. Yes, they are heavy - and yes - they do fall off in fights and when running - although there is a chin strap which is fairly good and for riots a special double chin strap. The fact is that they are part of our history - take the helmet away - use only flat caps and everyone looks like a traffic warden Hope that answers the query ? Mervyn

An early Victorian helmet for WARWICKSHIRE. Probably 1870-80's but, I hope someone can give an accurate date. Shows the wear of years, but the fact is that today such early helmets are rare and keenly sought after.

I'll also start another thread on general police headgear - everyone , please join in with the interesting - but more common ones. Not that this could be called 'common'. When the Metropolitan Police first 'marched out' in 1829 a lot of thought had gone into their uniform. The French Revolution was not long before and there was great fear in England of having a uniformed body of men - outside of the military. They decided to make the uniform very similar to the civilian dress of that period and the men - of any importance - wore top hats. The first pattern were larger than this one and had a swelling top - which had inside a framework of cane. The 'bright' idea was that if the constable was chasing someone, he could throw the hat down and use it as a step to climb walls. That didn't last long - they were far too heavy. Top hats continued into the 1860's when the first pattern of helmet was introduced. Some of the County Forces had a smaller hat than the Met. and I think this is one - probably dates from the 1840 - 50's period. They are very rare today and this is the only one I have ever had the chance to buy. Always bear in mind the great number of films and TV programmes that have required period dress and they do come on the market and cause confusion. They are not fakes - intended to deceive for profit - but, rather copies.